Ummm… what?
Wow, there sure is a lot of misinformation in this thread.
As a local and a friend of a few people in the Bay County Sheriff’s Office, I am very familiar with the details of this case, and would like to set the record straight.
Please consider these facts before you rush to make judgement on the BCSO Juvenile Offender Boot Camp program or its instructors or the Medical Examiner for this district.
The offender who died was not the innocent schoolboy that the press and the OP have depicted. He had an extensive criminal record, and was sentenced to Boot Camp as a last resort measure to attempt to rehabilitate him.
The pathologist (Baden) who is claiming that the second autopsy proved that Anderson died as the result of a “beating” by the instructors, was not the M.E. who actually performed the second autopsy, he was an observer hired by the family.
The official results of the second autopsy have not yet been released, and any results reported by outsiders is purely speculation.
It’s interesting to note that even before the first autopsy, Anderson’s family (who up until the incident had basically abandoned this kid, leaving him in his grandmother’s care) demanded a 10 million dollar “settlement” from the state “to avoid a lawsuit”.
I suggest that the Florida State Legislators who have made outrageous public accusations have done so for political gain, and no other valid reason, and that the national press has spun the story to enhance its sensationalism.
Before anyone dislocates their shoulder waving their fist in righteous indignation, I suggest that they do a little research and get their facts straight.
The full story, along with copies of emails from the Medical Examiner, is available on the Panama City News Herald website.
There is also a St. Petersburg (FL) Times article here with the Medical Examiner’s (Dr. Charles Siebert, who performed the first autopsy) point of view and comments.
Sorry, Bricker. ‘It’ being prosecution. You’re basically taking a lot of words to relay ‘wait and see’, and the way you assemble them makes you seem as if you’re defending murderers.
Am I wrong, here?
I seem to have goofed up the links in my previous post.
Let’s try again:
I’m strongly opposed to boot camps. Bullying (as opposed to challenging) a troubled a youth is a dumb thing to do.
That being said, there is nothing in the video that indicated that the youth was beaten or otherwise treated in a manner that might physically injure him, let alone kill him.
There may have been negligence somewhere along the line, or there may have been an assault that was not captured on video, but all of this is conjecture at this time.
And how is this relevant, exactly?
CMC fnord!
Points to news media sensationalism. Admittedly it is perhaps not relevant at all.
I would also like to say that in my opinion it is indeed a tragedy that this young man died, and it is disturbing that it took so long for the instructors and the nurse to realize that they had mistaken the offender’s struggling as resistance and defiance and not as signs of a serious medical problem, delaying treatment which may (or may not) have saved his life. But accusations of “murder” are way out of line.
As for the nurse, those who know her have said that she is very distraught over the incident and is actually a very caring person who has a reputation of professionalism and quality care, and a possible reason for her reluctance to interfere in the situation was due to being intimidated by the actions of the instructors as they attempted to control the offender.
You would be enlightened if you heard the instructors’ side of the story, and I wish I could present it to you here but I’m reluctant to relate their statements without citation as it would merely be hearsay.
GusNSpot was talking about exactly that and I made reference to his comment. You and LHOD both misunderstood my point. Obviously, I was unclear. I do not support brutal “boot camps.”
LHOD, so you think it is going to be simple for the courts to determine which camps are too tough for teens?
Not to get picky, but I have to object to the use of the words “Tough Love”.
As a volunteer coordinator for Toughlove (a copyrighted name in several variations, by the way) I quote our website:
Is Toughlove affiliated with any boot camps or military schools?
No. Toughlove is not in anyway affiliated with any boot camps. Nor do we align with the bootcamps’ philosophies. Toughlove is a loving, caring, family oriented solution. Often the press will use the term “tough love” loosely, but unless it describes our very own program, it’s a misuse of who we are.
Okay. Nitpick over. Continue with the thread.
On the contrary, it has massive implications for the OP. “Boot camp” means basic military training; that’s what just about any American you say “boot camp” to will assume you’re talking about. That’s a federal institution which directly affects a very large number of people. This, apparently, is about some county in Florida. Tragic? Yes. Awful? Yes. Relevant to my life? No, I’ve spent a total of maybe three days in Florida and I plan to never enter that state’s boundaries again if I have any say in the matter. If you ask me, the more basic, underlying tragedy is that 14 year olds are sent to anything resembling police/military/sheriff training–especially as a punishment. If I could choose to change something about the state of Florida or East Panama Whatever County based on this story, I would make 18 the minimum age for entry into the training program.
The reason there’s an argument about the words “boot camp” is because it makes a huge difference as to how the story is perceived. Somebody may not have time to read the thread–and not have heard of the story because it’s about some county government in Florida–and only see the title, “This young boy died because boot camps are considered ‘tough love’”. Then they go to all of their friends and tell them somebody died in military basic training. It’s just a rumor mill, but it makes a massive mistake, on the level of confusing a City Council election with a U.S. Senate election. I hope a mod comes by and changes the title to reflect the specific locale of this tragedy and minimize confusion.
Your post is full of vitriol for everyone who’s not you. Sorry, Queuing, but “boot camp” means something entirely different from Panama Whatever County Sheriff Torture Camp, and that’s important; I too can hardly make out any human victim or crime in the video. That said, I couldn’t agree with you more regarding your assessment of the training camp.
Sounds familiar, now that you mention it. But there’s no boot camp there, as the Air Force’s only basic training base is in Texas. Carry on.
Actually, you’re wrong.
The name of the program is the Department of Juvenile Justice Boot Camp Program. It is a Florida program, altho there are similiar programs in approximately 30 other states. The first program of this type was in Georgia in 1983. It is not something that is misleading or unknown to the masses in the US.
To clarify, since you seem to not have read the posts in this thread or to have even the vaguest knowledge about this form of corrective punishment meted out by over half of the states in the union… this isn’t where 14 year old kids go to learn how to be sheriffs, it is a correctional program for convicted youth offenders where the emphasis is (supposedly) on discipline and rigourous physical exertion, with military-like rules.
Next time you feel the need to have an opinion, read more than the thread title.
I seem to have made an error; I thought Panama City was out of the country, and not in Florida. Thus, this ‘boot camp’ must have some standards to follow. That said, after careful viewing of the video, I do see what appear to be some blows to the abdomen.
In the interest of fighting ignorance, here is some information about the Juvenile Offender Boot Camp program in Polk County, which is very similar to the former Bay County (Panama City) program.
Link to what I believe is the full video.[
](http://headlinesupdate.fec.mhe.viapointe.com/archiveLinks/newsherald.php?aID=141)
Panama City, FL, The News Herald’s, Boot Camp Archives
Hmm, methinks this case is about eggshells.
CMC fnord!
Yes, you are. Completely wrong.
I’m not so much saying wait and see as I am saying that the proponent of any claim bears the burden of proof. Right now, we don’t seem to have any evidence at all of criminal wrongdoing. I am saying “wait and see” only in the same sense that I’d say let’s “wait and see” if Senator Reid is a serial arsonist. It’s certainly possible that evidence will develop that shows he’s a serial arsonist, but right now, there isn’t any reliable evidence to show such a thing.
I’m not defending murderers. I’m saying you haven’t shown me any evidence that a murder exists.
At what timestamp point?
A: Aw, man. I don’t want to watch that freaking thing again.
B: Bricker, the way you phrase your words makes it seem to a second party as if you are defending murderers, as opposed to taking a ‘wait and see’ approach. And when I say ‘defending murderers’, I mean ‘acting as legal counsel for the defense.’
Why would a second party reach that conclusion? Any fair-minded person, faced with the evidence presented thus far, should reach the same conclusion. What evidence exists right now for any person to reach a fair conclusion otherwise?
(I’m going to watch the video again. I just really don’t like watching people die.)
Bricker, you havn’t reached a conclusion at all. Just equivocated until more evidence is presented. That seems to be the most accurate position to take, but you have presented yourself as if you have come to a conclusion.
How about the fact that it took those animals all of 40 minutes to realize that the kid they were obviously manhandling was dying and not refusing to continue to exercise?
Abu Ghraib is only that much easier to understand. And you should be oh so proud, Bricker, of living in an increasingly fascist nation since you’re an obvious advocate of same.
Congrats…