[QUOTE=crowmanyclouds]
No, he was exercised to death<snip>[/COLOR]
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No, he wasn’t. Based on the autopsy report that is linked in this thread (and I will be interested in reading the second autopsy report when it becomes available, but it doesn’t look like it is yet, so it’s kind of moot for this discussion), he died because he had Sickle Cell Trait, which can manifest itself as sudden ideopathic death upon exercise. In other words, the same amount of exercise in a similar kid without Sickle Cell Trait would not have killed the kid.
[QUOTE=Cardinal]
I know what you’re talking about with the wild soldier behavior on leave.
But anecdotal evidence is widespread that the military has turned around many people from their immature or criminal ways. I know my brother was much more grown up when he came back from his 6 months in Army basic and other training.
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Very true. Some people need to get away from the neighborhod and family, in order to get their heads right. There are some of us who were quite happy in the military…
It was a nice change for me (for example). I was no criminal, but I was immature in some ways.
I was no longer treated like a stupid kid
who didn’t know anything
wasn’t worth listening to
was told what to think and what opinions to have
was never taken at his word.
In the Army, I was respected, my word was good, I was trusted with responsibilities (appropriate for my rank of E5), and was able to do my work, see the results, and feel pride in things well done. Despite the differences of rank and authority, there was a feeling of equality and respect. Maybe I’m looking through the rose colored glasses of nostalgia, but it took a lot of convincing from the family to NOT re-up. Needless to say, when I got back, there was a huge shakeup and some harsh words. I was an adult and was not going to be treated as a child any longer. After it settled down, my family and I got along great.
Medical examiner: Guards suffocated teenager at boot camp
(CNN) – A Florida medical examiner has determined that the teen who died at a state boot camp was suffocated by guards who were restraining him. (Posted 2:23 p.m.)
Good. Please keep us posted on the investigation and the results. It looks like the system needs to be changed, the guilty punished, and the rest need some decent training.
[QUOTE=smiling bandit]
Actual Boot Camp is unpleasant, but from everything I’ve ever heard actually not bad. They make you work, but unlike Full Metal Jacket, you don’t have R. Lee Ermy yelling at you. So, at best, it’s nothing more than people choosing to believe a fiction they like.
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It’s a little late to get involved in this, but actual boot camp, at least in the Air Force, bears no resemblance to that movie any longer, if it ever did. They do yell, they do scream, and they do verbally taunt you, but they cannot touch you. One of my MTIs actually asked permission to contact me to demonstrate the proper hand position for a salute because I was not doing it correctly. They are professional stress inducers, no more, no less. They are not abusers.
What happened to this boy, the physical abuse, would never happen at Lackland. Were it to happen the people involved would be in jail for a long time and the supervisors would almost certainly be dismissed. That’s not to say that people don’t die in boot camp, but that is not because of abuse. It’s usually because they were not in proper shape when they got there and were overcome during PT, which is actually not all that strenuous.
I do believe that boot camps for children can be a benefit, but not in the form that this one took. Boot camps are intended to stress you now so you don’t experience it first at the worst possible time, under fire. There is no need for such rigor in the case of boot camps for children. Teach them to stand at attention, teach them a skill, teach them respect, sure, but there’s no call for physical abuse.
I know this is a zombie thread, but the verdict is in and the guards have been acquitted of all charges. Link.
I find it shocking that they weren’t even convicted of some of the lesser charges. Even if his pre-existing condition was the reason for his death (something which is disputed in the autopsies and considering one of them was going to celebrate with the guards I don’t really trust his version of events), I have a hard time accepting that the guards’ actions were justified.
The special prosecutor states that:
But really, I doubt that that brings a lot of comfort to his family.
Jeb Bush withdrew his support from the boot camp program, but the system probably feels that people with the ability to exercise cruelty in the interests of society should not always be treated as criminals, but retained as valuable tools of social control.
Has anyone here read Jesus Land, a memoir of a girl and her brother who were sent to a “Christian” reform school in the Dominican Republic? The “counselors,” who are not even required to have special training in working with troubled youth before being employed, get away with quite a lot outside of the U.S. I don’t know that they’ve actually killed anyone in their custody, but they’re quite good at making people’s lives hell.
[QUOTE=Ready_for_my_closeup]
I know this is a zombie thread, but the verdict is in and the guards have been acquitted of all charges. Link.
I find it shocking that they weren’t even convicted of some of the lesser charges. Even if his pre-existing condition was the reason for his death (something which is disputed in the autopsies and considering one of them was going to celebrate with the guards I don’t really trust his version of events), I have a hard time accepting that the guards’ actions were justified.
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If Rodney King couldn’t get a fair trial in an overwhelmingly Democratic state (California) despite clear-cut visual evidence which was broadcast all around the world…what chance does some anonymous African-American teenager have in Florida??
This court decision is patently RACIST, pure and simple. And I don’t even feel outraged about it, because it’s typical of how Southern red states operate. Just a normal day. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug]
As I said: valuable tools of social control.
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So, what are you saying…you advocate the random killing of young, black males just because they’re young and black?
[QUOTE=KGS]
If Rodney King couldn’t get a fair trial in an overwhelmingly Democratic state (California) despite clear-cut visual evidence which was broadcast all around the world…what chance does some anonymous African-American teenager have in Florida??
This court decision is patently RACIST, pure and simple. And I don’t even feel outraged about it, because it’s typical of how Southern red states operate. Just a normal day. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
Having spent entirely too much time watching CourtTV (lunch break) I have to say I agree with the jury. The instructors (guards, whatever) were just scapegoats. The jury saw through it. If you want to find the real perpetrators I suggest you find whoever thought these boot camps were a great idea.
[QUOTE=KGS]
If Rodney King couldn’t get a fair trial in an overwhelmingly Democratic state (California) despite clear-cut visual evidence which was broadcast all around the world…what chance does some anonymous African-American teenager have in Florida??
This court decision is patently RACIST, pure and simple. And I don’t even feel outraged about it, because it’s typical of how Southern red states operate. Just a normal day. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
This thread contains hundreds of posts in which the fact that the video posted here does NOT contain clear-cut visual evidence of a crime is discussed at length.
Why are you now castigating the jury for failing to see what many participants in this thread could also not see?
Or are you claiming that the jury saw an unedited version in which the criminal acts were clear and unambiguous? And if so – where did you see this film? Can you provide a link?
[QUOTE=KGS]
This court decision is patently RACIST, pure and simple.
[/QUOTE]
That’s just stupid. The guards were white, black, and asian. Are you honestly saying that it’s racist because some black defendents (among other races) didn’t go to jail for allegedly beating a black victim? How does that make sense?