Cap’s not a thug. He’s a warrior. A leader, a hero, and an expert.
Actually, I rather liked a subtle thing in Marvel Vs DC. Batman and Cap are facing each other in a… sewer? They circle… test each other. Then, Cap steps on his shield, finding it after the flood swept it away. At that moment, Batman calls the fight off and suggests teaming up.
It sort of implies that at that point, Bats recognized the fight was over.
Batman always wins, if he’s prepared. He’s an expert at any situation. But Captain America is the greatest warrior ever. So the way to win is not to fight.
T’was a rooftop, and Batman was the one standing on the shield (this is the JLA/Avenger crossover, correct?). But I agree that it was an ideal ending. Batman would’ve won flatout if he could have retreated and come back (realizing how stupid he was for giving up his strategically superior position on top of the shield), and would have lost at that time.
The Super-Soldier serum enhanced Captain America’s Strength and Reflexes to just above peak-human. So, in otherwords, the razor’s edge of Superhuman. It didn’t do anything for his skills. He’s highly acrobatic, and he has a keen mind, but when it comes to fisticuffs, he’s pretty plain-jane. Judo and Karate probably … plus his own shield-tossing.
Bats, on the other hand, has trained his strength and reflexes to peak human levels. A shade under Cap in both respects. He’s a master of multiple styles of martial arts, and one of the most formidable physical combatants of the DC Universe. He is also highly acrobatic, and has a keen mind.
For Accessories : Cap has his (sometimes) chainmail reinforced costume and his indestructible shield. Bats has unnumerable gadgets, armored costume, and a variety of self-defense systems that boggle the mind.
Thinking : Cap is an inspiration on the battlefield and an excellent strategist. He is the natural born team leader. I think, however, that Batman edges Cap out when it comes to individual… IE One on One… tactics.
Bringing other Marvel/DC crossovers into the mix… Bats once took down the Hulk.
One other issue I’d like to raise, though it’s sort of a meta-point - will to win. When we are presented with a post-apocalyptic future of the Marvel or DC universe… each of them has one character that most often survives the longest. These are Spider-Man and Batman. Cap and Superman fall into the ‘Most Likely to Have Died Heroically and Thus Inspired the Heroes of the New Generation’ category.
Heh. I haven’t read Wolverine : The End, but he’s a stalwart contender in the category. Darn healing factor. Spidey tends to edge him in my mind for at least one major reason : The Guardians of the Galaxy. In that timeline… Cap died early, but his shield lives on as a symbol of … er… decency, and stuff, I guess. Spider-Man was the last hero to fall to the invaders of Earth.
But! Wolverine had survived the war… because most of the mutants made an exodus from Earth.
Bottom line? Wolvie’s got a healing factor that often lets him survive when others wouldn’t… but I don’t take that for will-to-win.
I never even would have considered Spidey - I never used to read him back in the day. I do know there were several post-apoc runs in X-Men/X-Factor that usually had him and Rogue bumming around the streets, saving random people from rogue sentinels, Rogue living vicariously off of Logan’s healing factor. There was one issue where his healing factor had been vastly decreased (from age, I believe), and he would scream in pain everytime he took his blades out. Yikes!
Hmmm. I read every X-title for a period of about… uhh… 7? 8? years.
The claw incidents, as you describe them, remind me of an undercover mission… Logan and Rogue, in Genosha, after being subject to power nullification. I can’t think of any post-Apocalpytic scenarios involving the both of them … Days of Future Past was the ‘default’ X-Men post-Apoc scenario, and I don’t remember Rogue playing much of a role in that. Still, I may have missed something.
The guy is obviously on crack so far as Hulk/Green Lantern (and Batman/Cap… I hate the omnipotence of the Batman character) is concerned but I believe he is spot on with Thor/Superman.
Of course, as my user name would imply, I’m thoroughly biased.
**Green Lantern ** beats Hulk 'cause he has the most bogus powers ever
Thor defeats Superman because nothing short of Ragnarok defeats Thor
but if Batman fights **Captain America ** he better be prepared… for a butt-whuppin’!
'course anyone that knows my City of Heroes persona knows that I may be a bit of a homer on this one.
Batman’s not really omnipotent, per se. He’s just very, very good at what he does. That, and he has no concept of a “fair” fight. example: When he realized a confrontation with Superman was inevitable in The Dark Knight Returns, he dressed himself in a suit designed to hit him with all of the electrical power of Gotham City, had Green Arrow shoot him with an arrow loaded with Kryptonite napalm before he used it on him, and then proceeded to beat the hell out of him with kryptonite gauntlets.
I’m not sure if he’s got a better mind for tactics than Capt. America, but he’s at the very least near his level. Pretty much everyone in the DC universe who’s had anything to do with him knows for certain that he could take them out, if he decided they needed to be taken down. This came up in a storyline involving Ra’s Al Ghul (sp?) not too long ago, actually, when he used his contingency plans against the Justice League to take them out of the equation before doing other nastiness.
Wesley Willis (sp?) could probably kick all of their asses. He’s taken down Batman and Superman, apparently. Birdman brought him down, tho’, after he caught him trespassing on his property. Make of that what you will.
I don’t have an issue with The Joker over Lex Luthor. The Joker isn’t some goofball who dresses silly and laughs a lot. He’s a killer. He knows how to hone in on a weakness. He can terrorize, bewilder, and manipulate anybody. Couple that with a well-stocked arsenal, and I can very see him overcoming some guy in a suit.
The one I really have an issue with is The Punisher over Daredevil…not only because it’s never happened, but The Punisher himself admits that it’s not gonna happen (Confederacy of Dunces). At best, he can eke out a draw.
Gad, I actually responded to this pointless subject…next thing you know, I’ll be picking a side in Bettery vs. Veronica.
That’s not quite what happened. Bats and Cap were fighting in a sewer and Cap was complaining about how he couldn’t even find Batman because he kept blending into the shadows. They spar for a little while and talk about how evenly matched they are. Then they tell each other about their origins, why they fight, blah blah blah. Then agree to fight it out 'til the end, so Batman throws a batarang and Cap throws his shield when suddenly the flood gates open or something and water fills the sewer. Cap’s shield misses Batman while Cap gets conked on the head with the batarang, losing the fight.
After the fight, they decide to team up to see what they can do about the whole Universe-Ending thing, and Access uses them to create the Amalgam universe.
As for the site in question, I think the Wolverine/Thing fight is kind of stupid. Wolverine’s claws wouldn’t pierce the Thing’s hide? Hello? Remember when Wolverine slashed theh shit out of Thing’s face and he ended up wearing a bucket on his head for about a year?
