Those numbers in movie credits? -- Update

Cafe Society
1

Very soon after I came to SDMB, I started a thread Those numbers in movie credits? on 06-26-2003, 01:02 PM. It got some action and some good information and I referred back to it yesterday while I was checking out some of the entries at Category:Film and video terminology From Wikipedia which makes for some fun trivia hunting.

Today I located this site which appears to be at least an interesting attempt to identify the movies with those elusive MPAA certificates, which now are in the 46,000 range.

If you have further details on this issue, please share. It appears to me that this whole numbering system – and even the provocation for its beginnings back in the 30’s – is mostly a relic of the old days. But it may be that I just haven’t located some better history on it.

Definitely some trivia for movie trivia fans!

2

Just to see what would happen, I played with URL’s in the IMDB Title search function and as of just now the highest title number that returned something other than “Page Not Found” is "Victoire Bonnot" Addiction (TV Episode 2010) - IMDb which is “Victoire Bonnot” Addiction (???)

No doubt that number will go up unless IMDB uses some other system than numerical ID’s for their titles.

If that’s the case, they are accounting for 1,635,805+ “titles” which obviously includes individual episodes of TV shows and other non-feature-movie things.

And if that’s true their #1 title is Carmencita (1894)

And just for reference, the “halfway title” is Erwerbslose kochen für Erwerbslose (1932)

And The Hurt Locker (2008) is Title #887912.

Have you seen any details on the scheme(s) for URL numbering at IMDB?

3

Another piece of IMDB trivia: Catherine Lay has (at this moment) the highest “Name” number in the URL.

Fred Astaire is #1!

4

One milestone is the millionth movie on IMDB: Rocco Ravishes St. Petersburg. It appears to be an exemplar of the genre where dozens of young women (presumably Russian here) make their bodies available to the protagonist (presumably Rocco).

5

It does make a nice statement, doesn’t it?

It’s puzzling how the numbering systems of the various search categories have seemed to develop. I was using IMDB before it got bought up by whoever owns it now, back when it was a project for fans and geeks. Most likely the peculiarities stem from those old days.

But it’s fun checking out #1 in the various categories.

Character: Jesse James (Character) from The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)

Company: Panorama Video

See IMDb | Help for IMDB history.

6

Here are some of the new titles I contributed to the IMDb, the date and time of submission, and the URL numbers assigned:

May 3, 2008, 7:03 p.m.
Bucking Broncos (1904)
1228653

May 3, 2008, 7:11 p.m.
Capsized Boat (1904)
1228656

May 3, 2008, 7:17 p.m.
Casting a Guide Box, Westinghouse Works (1904)
1228657

May 3, 2008, 7:23 p.m.
Central High School, Calisthenics, Missouri Commission (1904)
1228659

May 3, 2008, 7:30 p.m.
Cop Fools the Sergeant, The (1904)
1228661

(In the next few minutes, I added data to existing film titles, then I went back to adding new titles.)

May 3, 2008, 7:57 p.m.
Emerson School, Calisthenics, Missouri Commission (1904)
1228669

May 3, 2008, 8:05 p.m.
Fencing Class, Missouri Valley College (1904)
1228680

May 3, 2008: 8:10 p.m.
Free Arm Movement, All Schools, Missouri Commission (1904)
1228684

It seems to be straight serial numbering, by order of submission. Before the IMDb began using these serial numbers, they used the words of the title in the URL. For example, http://www.imdb.com/title/Star+Wars/.

That probably became unwieldy with long film titles, and duplicate film titles, so they switched to a serial number system. My vague memory is that this occurred in the mid-1990s, around the time the IMDb incorporated as a business.

My guess is that when they redid the URLs, they lined up all their titles in a row by release year, and within release year alphabetically by title. Perhaps the earliest year for which the IMDb had film titles at the time was 1894, and Carmencita was alphabetically the first.

7

Walloon, do you have any inside info on how the cast lists of those “uncredited” performers get built? Are we relying on the keen eyesight and encyclopedic knowledge of dedicated fans or are there lists made available by the studios and production companies?

I just saw White Sands (1992)on cable the other night and was impressed with how many such players there were in it.

If you know why there are so many “uncrediteds” in this movie (or others you can name) I’d like to know what prompts that sort of thing.

8

For American features from 1931 through 1960, and 1971–1973, a lot of the “uncredited” performers come from the cast lists in the American Film Institute Catalog of Motion Pictures, which in turn gets the cast lists from studio records and other unpublished sources. For American features 1974–present, I’m guessing that a lot of the “uncredited” performers credits come from the performers themselves.

Then there are old movie buffs who just have a talent for recognizing bit actors who are credited in some movies and not in others.

At the same time, I’m surprised that there are any uncredited performers in American features today. From 1980 onward, Screen Actors Guild contracts have given a screen credit to every performer above the level of an extra.

9

Thanks, Walloon. I had suspected that sort of thing and am glad I wasn’t far off.

Just to have a sample of things at IMDb, I collected this batch:

Cheating Cheaters (1919) - IMDb Cheating Cheaters (1919)
Hot Stuff (1929) - IMDb Hot Stuff (1929)
Cocoanut Grove (1938) - IMDb Cocoanut Grove (1938)
The Woman on the Beach (1947) - IMDb The Woman on the Beach (1947)
Boots and Saddles (TV Series 1956–1958) - IMDb “Boots and Saddles” (1957)
Jon Pertwee Show (TV Series 1966– ) - IMDb “Jon Pertwee Show” (1966)
Double Indemnity (TV Movie 1973) - IMDb Double Indemnity (1973) (TV)
The Tempest (TV Movie 1980) - IMDb The Tempest (1980) (TV)
Wet Sexes in the Sun (1995) - IMDb Sexos húmedos al sol (1985)
Lehrer leben länger (1990) - IMDb Lehrer leben länger (1990)
Heads (TV Movie 1994) - IMDb Heads (1993) (TV)
Reflecment (Short 1997) - IMDb Reflecment (1997)
Homenagem ao Presidente da Câmara Municipal de Lisboa (1960) - IMDb Homenagem ao Presidente da Câmara Municipal de Lisboa (1960)
Dr. Peter Proctor's House of Anal Delights (Video 1996) - IMDb Dr. Peter Proctor’s House of Anal Delights (1996) (V)
Busy Bus (Short 1934) - IMDb Busy Bus (1934)
Another Day, Another Million (Video 1993) - IMDb Another Day, Another Million (1993) (V)
Eagles Law (1988) - IMDb Highway Warrior (1990)
Ne diraj u srecu (1961) - IMDb Ne diraj u srecu (1961)
Sharing the Secret (1981) - IMDb Sharing the Secret (1981)
Come on Girls! (1982) - IMDb Shibugakitai: Boys and Girls (1982)
The Redskins and the Renegades (Short 1914) - IMDb The Redskins and the Renegades (1914)

Notice that 190000 is missing. That may mean my basic assumption upthread about “the highest number” is faulty.

Also notice how the steady chronological progress is broken at around 130000 or so.

10

I suspect that missing numbers can be caused by duplicate removal, i.e., merging two records for the same movie.

And the chronological progression stops between 120000 and 130000.

11

Good explanation for the lost number, and you beat me to my correction on 130000.

Just doing some spot checking on names, it looks like the first x-number are close to alphabetical, but at some point (yet to be found by me) the alphabet goes out the window. May be fun to locate that place in the numbering. :slight_smile:

12

Looks like they redid the URLs in 1997 or later, around the time Amazon bought the company in 1998. If you go through the serial numbers below 0121000, the films are in order by year of release, and within year of release, alphabetically by title.

13

It would appear the alpha names concept ran out before they got to 100 – 83 to be exact:

Fred Astaire - IMDb Fred Astaire
James Cagney - IMDb James Cagney
Henry Fonda - IMDb Henry Fonda
Audrey Hepburn - IMDb Audrey Hepburn
Stanley Kubrick - IMDb Stanley Kubrick (I)
Groucho Marx - IMDb Groucho Marx
Gregory Peck - IMDb Gregory Peck
Max Steiner - IMDb Max Steiner (I)
Orson Welles - IMDb Orson Welles
Victor Young - IMDb Victor Young (I)
Alan Miller - IMDb Alan Miller (III)
Gong Li - IMDb Li Gong
Henner Hofmann - IMDb Henner Hofmann
Armin Mueller-Stahl - IMDb Armin Mueller-Stahl
Rowan Atkinson - IMDb Rowan Atkinson

14

So much for a clever scheme! :wink:

Any ideas on the first true porn to get in?

15

Here’s another group of IMDb numbers for Titles that might suggest some other search for trivia:

The Shawshank Redemption (1994) - IMDb 1. 9.1 The Shawshank Redemption (1994)
The Godfather (1972) - IMDb 2. 9.1 The Godfather (1972)
The Godfather Part II (1974) - IMDb 3. 9.0 The Godfather: Part II (1974)
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966) - IMDb 4. 8.9 Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo. (1966)
Pulp Fiction (1994) - IMDb 5. 8.9 Pulp Fiction (1994)
Schindler's List (1993) - IMDb 6. 8.9 Schindler’s List (1993)
12 Angry Men (1957) - IMDb 7. 8.8 12 Angry Men (1957)
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975) - IMDb 8. 8.8 One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest (1975)
Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980) - IMDb 9. 8.8 Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
The Dark Knight (2008) - IMDb 10. 8.8 The Dark Knight (2008)
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003) - IMDb 11. 8.8 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (1977) - IMDb 12. 8.8 Star Wars (1977)
Casablanca (1942) - IMDb 13. 8.7 Casablanca (1942)
Seven Samurai (1954) - IMDb 14. 8.7 Shichinin no samurai (1954)
Goodfellas (1990) - IMDb 15. 8.7 Goodfellas (1990)
Fight Club (1999) - IMDb 16. 8.7 Fight Club (1999)
City of God (2002) - IMDb 17. 8.7 Cidade de Deus (2002)
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) - IMDb 18. 8.7 The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)
Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) - IMDb 19. 8.7 Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)
Rear Window (1954) - IMDb 20. 8.7 Rear Window (1954)

16

In an effort to see if any relationship exists between the MPAA cerificate numbers and the IMDb Title numbers, I gathered this data:

The Shawshank Redemption (1994) - IMDb 1. 9.1 The Shawshank Redemption (1994)
1994 33087 The Shawshank Redemption
The Godfather (1972) - IMDb 2. 9.1 The Godfather (1972)
1972 23101 The Godfather
The Godfather Part II (1974) - IMDb 3. 9.0 The Godfather: Part II (1974)
1974 24038 The Godfather: Part II
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966) - IMDb 4. 8.9 Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo. (1966)
1966 21628 Buono, il brutto, il cattivo, Il
Pulp Fiction (1994) - IMDb 5. 8.9 Pulp Fiction (1994)
1994 33107 Pulp Fiction
Schindler's List (1993) - IMDb 6. 8.9 Schindler’s List (1993)
1993 32781 Schindler’s List
12 Angry Men (1957) - IMDb 7. 8.8 12 Angry Men (1957)
1957 18206 12 Angry Men
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975) - IMDb 8. 8.8 One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest (1975)
1975 24434 One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest
Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980) - IMDb 9. 8.8 Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
1980 26034 Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back
The Dark Knight (2008) - IMDb 10. 8.8 The Dark Knight (2008)
2008 44427 The Dark Knight
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003) - IMDb 11. 8.8 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
2003 40415 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (1977) - IMDb 12. 8.8 Star Wars (1977)
1977 24925 Star Wars
Casablanca (1942) - IMDb 13. 8.7 Casablanca (1942)
1942 8457 Casablanca
Seven Samurai (1954) - IMDb 14. 8.7 Shichinin no samurai (1954)
???
Goodfellas (1990) - IMDb 15. 8.7 Goodfellas (1990)
1990 30613 Goodfellas
Fight Club (1999) - IMDb 16. 8.7 Fight Club (1999)
1999 36857 Fight Club
City of God (2002) - IMDb 17. 8.7 Cidade de Deus (2002)
???
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) - IMDb 18. 8.7 The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)
2001 38473 The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) - IMDb 19. 8.7 Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)
1981 26345 Raiders of the Lost Ark
Rear Window (1954) - IMDb 20. 8.7 Rear Window (1954)
1954 16938 Rear Window
1954 27069 Rear Window (1996 Restoration Version)

If you see a pattern please say so.

17

While I was “finding” the counterparts to the IMDb Title numbers for those Top 20 movies in the MPAA Certificates list at http://members.chello.nl/~a.degreef/Filmnummers.html
when I was trying to locate “Raiders” for the Lost Ark movie, I ran across:

1941 6924 Sky Raiders [Chapter 1: ]
1941 6925 Sky Raiders [Chapter 2: ]
1941 6926 Sky Raiders [Chapter 3: ]
1941 6927 Sky Raiders [Chapter 4: ]
1941 6928 Sky Raiders [Chapter 5: ]
1941 6929 Sky Raiders [Chapter 6: ]
1941 6930 Sky Raiders [Chapter 7: ]
1941 6931 Sky Raiders [Chapter 8: ]
1941 6932 Sky Raiders [Chapter 9: ]
1941 6933 Sky Raiders [Chapter 10: ]
1941 6934 Sky Raiders [Chapter 11: ]

for which I see only Sky Raiders (1941) - IMDb Sky Raiders (1941)

This suggests that there may have been other such glitches in the numbering system for cartoons, serials and other oddities.

Not finding matches for

Seven Samurai (1954) - IMDb 14. 8.7 Shichinin no samurai (1954)
???

and

City of God (2002) - IMDb 17. 8.7 Cidade de Deus (2002)
???

was also puzzling.

Do you have any idea why they continue to use those MPAA Certificate numbers when the rating system associated with it is so nearly a dead issue?

There must be something more than “tradition” involved since we still see 2010 movies getting those codes.

2010 46044 Exit Through the Gift Shop
Exit Through the Gift Shop (2010) - IMDb Exit Through the Gift Shop (2010)

is the highest numbered 2010 movie on the list (at this moment).

18

Answering my own question: I doubt this qualifies as “true porn” by any stretch, but at least it’s touted as

Tickling the Soles of Her Feet (1898)

If you want to do some experimental searching at IMDb, use
Feature Film, Released between 1898-01-01 and 1898-12-31 (Sorted by Popularity Ascending) - IMDb as a starting point and change the year in the URL for lists of such things as:

Refine:
By Title Type
By Keywords
By Genres
By Countries
By Languages
By Year
People Born in 1898
People Who Died in 1898
1898 Titles by Country
Most Popular Feature Films Released In 1898
Best Feature Films Released In 1898 With At Least 1,000 Votes
Worst Titles Released In 1898
Most Voted Titles Released In 1898

Following the “Most Voted Titles Released In <year>” trails, here are some of the earliest IMDb Titles:

Monkeyshines, No. 1 (Short 1890) - IMDb Monkeyshines, No. 1 (1890)
Dickson Greeting (Short 1891) - IMDb Dickson Greeting (1891)
Pauvre Pierrot (Short 1892) - IMDb Pauvre Pierrot (1892)
Blacksmith Scene (Short 1893) - IMDb Blacksmith Scene (1893)
Carmencita (Short 1894) - IMDb Carmencita (1894)
Leaving the Factory (Short 1895) - IMDb La sortie des usines Lumière (1895)
The Arrival of a Train (Short 1896) - IMDb L’arrivée d’un train à La Ciotat (1896)
Bataille de neige (Short 1897) - IMDb Bataille de neige (1897)
Tossing a Nigger in a Blanket (Short 1898) - IMDb Tossing a Nigger in a Blanket (1898)
A Kiss in the Tunnel (Short 1899) - IMDb The Kiss in the Tunnel (1899/I)
The One-Man Band (Short 1900) - IMDb L’homme orchestre (1900)

19

Zeldar, I think you are talking of two numbering systems here aren’t you? The MPAA Certificates and the IMDB numbering system? It wasn’t clear to me initially when I read the thread first up.

20

Quite so. One set is totally different from the other. I’m trying to square them up as best I can. The thread title refers to the MPAA Certificates numbers.