thoughts on 'Living in the Present'

Great Debates
21

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Can you at least link us to other threads where you’ve presented these cites, or mention some book titles or something? Otherwise, why post in this thread? Your entire first post comes off as very “neener-neener..I have a SEEcret, and you don’t know about it, it’s the perfect answer for the OP, but it’s all mine, la-la-la!”

As I said in my post, if anyone has the secret - not of what living in the present means, but how to do it consistently - * I’d* love to hear it. I’m getting there, but it takes an awful lot of self-reminding and starting over again on a daily, or sometimes hourly, basis. Can’t speak for anyone else, of course.

And on that topic, I have to agree with Baldwin. You and I actually agree on a whole lot of spiritual matters, from everything I’ve read from you. And while I don’t talk about it much, I do post about it some, and I’ve never received the grief you have for it. The only difference I can see is that I’m aware enough to post that my ideas are my ideas, my Truths are my Truths. I find them helpful for me in my own universe, but other people create their universes (I think) and there’s no reason that the Truths I’ve unearthed apply to them. They might, or they might not. But I’ve not had conversations with anyone else’s gods or Higher Selves, so I only have the information my god has given me. And She and I don’t waste our time talking about other people, We talk about me, mostly.

Hell, if we can’t all use the same deodorant stick with equal effectiveness, why would we all be able to use the same spiritual Truths with equal effectiveness?

So yeah, if you want to reach people instead of alienating them, you might try owning your own thoughts. Use “I” statements some. It’s part of living mindfully and in the present, you know. Of course, that right there is my truth - owning my ideas (even if they’re not original to me) works for me, and phrasing things in “I believe” or “I’ve found this helpful” gets me the audience and reception I want here on this message board. It might or might not work for you, of course, just like everything else.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry if I have been frustrating for you, but I do try. It’s just not being able to put into words my experiences and feelings. Spiritual values I have found can only be discovered by doing them. From what you say, you are doing it correctly, it just is not easy or something that can be achieved in an afternoon. I know I am totally different in thinking than others. You can blame it on my near death experience, really changed me. But I will continue to try. Most people take the words so literally they can’t grasp the meaning. I was told time after time by spirit to read between the lines, well sure, it’s easy, right. Now I know why and what they mean. This “living in the present” teaching does the same thing that most spiritual teachings do, get you to pull away from the material world and learn to “feel” the spiritual. Takes time and practice unless you have a spiritual experience that helps you. Keep telling me what you want and I will try to give it.

22

[QUOTE=lekatt]
Living in the present is an ancient spiritual teaching. Been around for thousands of years, it can product some very beneficial results including healing. It dovetails and illustrates many other spiritual teachings. If you knew the teachings and reasons behind them you would understand.
[/QUOTE]
Many things have been around for thousands of years, and if you’re trying to suggest length of history implies truth i’d stop tapping on that strange buttoned box you have in front of you.

I note that you’ve suggested i’m ignorant, that you are knowledgable, and then apparently decided not to tell me anything about it. I suspect that if I ask for a cite you’ll take your usual approach - find a history of often totally contradictory examples, claim the practioners were really doing what you say they were, and then citing the many people you have known as evidence this works. But hey, i’m game; cite me up.

23

[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Living in the present means something much different to me that meditation. Living in the present seems to indicate a desire to experience what you can as soon as you can, not really looking out for long term goals, and mainly just surface pleasures.
[/QUOTE]

To me, living in the present means not spending all my time ruminating over the mistakes and failures of my past. It also means not spending all that time trying to make the future turn out the way I want it to, by making people behave how I want them to.

Instead I try to learn from my past mistakes but then move on, plan my plans for the future but not plan the outcome of the future, and enjoy what’s happening in my life in the here and now.

“if you have one foot in yesterday and one foot in tomorrow, you’re pissing all over today” – AA saying

24

[QUOTE=lekatt]
Sorry if I have been frustrating for you, but I do try. It’s just not being able to put into words my experiences and feelings.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, I know. And I’m very fond of you, which is why I even bothered saying anything at all. I suspect if we were to hang out IRL over a nice cup of tea, we’d “get” each other really well with few explanations needed.

Part of it is just knowing your audience, really. “Cite?!” is the default cry of the crowd. Personal experience is dis-valued, although allowed if clearly labeled as such. And I agree with you that spiritual values and truths and faith - real faith - only come from personal experience. So that’s why trying to “prove” anything of faith is futile, and it pains me when you let others goad you into that trap. Other message boards are different, of course. I don’t feel the need for personal disclaimers or explanations nearly so much on a Wiccan board, for example, and I’m sure you find the same on a Christian board.

But, all that aside: what have *you *found helpful in keeping yourself living in the present? Are there any specific books or prayers or techniques you use?

25

[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
Many things have been around for thousands of years, and if you’re trying to suggest length of history implies truth i’d stop tapping on that strange buttoned box you have in front of you.

I note that you’ve suggested i’m ignorant, that you are knowledgable, and then apparently decided not to tell me anything about it. I suspect that if I ask for a cite you’ll take your usual approach - find a history of often totally contradictory examples, claim the practioners were really doing what you say they were, and then citing the many people you have known as evidence this works. But hey, i’m game; cite me up.
[/QUOTE]

On what?

26

[QUOTE=lekatt]
On what?
[/QUOTE]
That’s it’s been around for thousands of years, that it has many benefits including healing, it dovetails and illustrates many other spiritual teachings (although that’s more a “give examples” than a cite). The teachings and reasons behind them. In other words, your claims. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

27

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Oh, I know. And I’m very fond of you, which is why I even bothered saying anything at all. I suspect if we were to hang out IRL over a nice cup of tea, we’d “get” each other really well with few explanations needed.

Part of it is just knowing your audience, really. “Cite?!” is the default cry of the crowd. Personal experience is dis-valued, although allowed if clearly labeled as such. And I agree with you that spiritual values and truths and faith - real faith - only come from personal experience. So that’s why trying to “prove” anything of faith is futile, and it pains me when you let others goad you into that trap. Other message boards are different, of course. I don’t feel the need for personal disclaimers or explanations nearly so much on a Wiccan board, for example, and I’m sure you find the same on a Christian board.

But, all that aside: what have *you *found helpful in keeping yourself living in the present? Are there any specific books or prayers or techniques you use?
[/QUOTE]

After my experience the path was clear, sort of like the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak kind of thing. So there were several things that I did over and over. The first was affirmations that I wrote and can be found on my site. Every day I spent about 20 minutes writing them out in a notebook. Sometimes recalling some of them during the day. I did this for more than a year. Next I used the “Hands” meditation, mostly at night when I felt the need for it. The last is reading spiritual books concerning learning about love. My favorite of all time is “Emmanuel’s Book II, The Choice for Love.”
Compiled by Pat Rodegast and Judith Stanton.

It comes easy now, I can clear my mind whenever I want. My focus is such I can shut out noise and other irritations as I please. I can meditate to see the spiritual world, lots of peace, joy, and compassion. It wasn’t easy.

28

[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
That’s it’s been around for thousands of years, that it has many benefits including healing, it dovetails and illustrates many other spiritual teachings (although that’s more a “give examples” than a cite). The teachings and reasons behind them. In other words, your claims. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
[/QUOTE]

I am not sure you will find more than examples, the Master Teachers used parables to illustrate spiritual truths for a good reason. I know of no step by step book to spiritual knowledge. But the closest would be “A Course in Miracles.” It has a workbook that is very good in helping one to attain spiritual knowlege, but doesn’t explain how it comes, just gives the lessons.

This girl wrote her story of living in the now. She was feeling bad, went to a doctor, and discovered she had AIDS. After she got over being mad at her boyfriend she decided she would live the rest of her life to the fullest. The doctor gave her three months. She took a calendar and marked off the last days of her life. She promised herself she would do something every day no matter how small – sew on a button, empty trash, etc., and take a walk on the beach. So the journey began, she lived only for the moment, bringing her thoughts back to the immediate task as they wandered. She practiced this religiously, not letting the fears and worries of the disease linger in her thoughts. After a month she noticed she didn’t seem to feel any worse and quickly dismissed it from her mind. She also noticed her walks on the beach were becoming longer. Then one day on the beach she looked out over the water into the brilliant sunset, and felt a strange lightness, she felt she was one with the water and the sunset, it was such a beautiful feeling. After that she continued to grow stronger. After six month she went back to the doctor and was retested. The tests showed her disease was gone. No sign of AIDS anywhere. She wrote her story but no medical journal would publish it, they said it was a fluke or misdiagnoses. She didn’t mind too much she was completely healed.

29

[QUOTE=lekatt]
I am not sure you will find more than examples, the Master Teachers used parables to illustrate spiritual truths for a good reason. I know of no step by step book to spiritual knowledge. But the closest would be “A Course in Miracles.” It has a workbook that is very good in helping one to attain spiritual knowlege, but doesn’t explain how it comes, just gives the lessons.
[/quote]
Well, let me be more specific. When I asked for a cite that it’s been practiced for thousands of years, what I would consider to be a good cite would be perhaps quotes from scripture of a religion that’s been around that long (best cite of course would be a person, but we can’t really have that).

I could be wrong, but generally medical journals tend not to accept written in stories, unless you’re suggesting she had some training in the field and wrote an actual report up. What was it she sent in? How is it you know so certainly that it wasn’t a fluke or misdiagnoses, or indeed that she’d got better through any other means?

You seem to have accepted a guess as certainty. Do you have any personal experiences that I could check up on and that account for alternate reasons? I don’t mean to accuse you of anything, but a cite generally implies a link to a source.

30

Living in the moment is a very Thai concept, taken from Buddhism. The downside is there’s almost no planning for the future whatsoever among the people here. Living in the present is okay, but take it in moderation. You might NOT actually get eaten by a tiger in the San Francisco Zoo next week.

31

[QUOTE=lekatt]
I am not sure you will find more than examples, the Master Teachers used parables to illustrate spiritual truths for a good reason. I know of no step by step book to spiritual knowledge. But the closest would be “A Course in Miracles.” It has a workbook that is very good in helping one to attain spiritual knowlege, but doesn’t explain how it comes, just gives the lessons.

This girl wrote her story of living in the now. She was feeling bad, went to a doctor, and discovered she had AIDS. After she got over being mad at her boyfriend she decided she would live the rest of her life to the fullest. The doctor gave her three months. She took a calendar and marked off the last days of her life. She promised herself she would do something every day no matter how small – sew on a button, empty trash, etc., and take a walk on the beach. So the journey began, she lived only for the moment, bringing her thoughts back to the immediate task as they wandered. She practiced this religiously, not letting the fears and worries of the disease linger in her thoughts. After a month she noticed she didn’t seem to feel any worse and quickly dismissed it from her mind. She also noticed her walks on the beach were becoming longer. Then one day on the beach she looked out over the water into the brilliant sunset, and felt a strange lightness, she felt she was one with the water and the sunset, it was such a beautiful feeling. After that she continued to grow stronger. After six month she went back to the doctor and was retested. The tests showed her disease was gone. No sign of AIDS anywhere. She wrote her story but no medical journal would publish it, they said it was a fluke or misdiagnoses. She didn’t mind too much she was completely healed.
[/QUOTE]
Who is this girl? How do we contact her? Which doctor diagnosed her? When did all this happen?

32

[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Who is this girl? How do we contact her? Which doctor diagnosed her? When did all this happen?
[/QUOTE]

I read the story years ago in an alternative magazine, because she couldn’t get it published anywhere else. I have no reason to doubt it, the contact with the spiritual universe she made on the beach was the cure. Near death experiencers are always cured or greatly improved if the injuries are very severe. It is a little known benefit of the experience. I had been given six months to live, that was over twenty years ago. How can science measure/prove/duplicate the experience? Science can’t, you just enjoy the ride. Science is not the only way to measure life, not even the preferred way.

33

[QUOTE=lekatt]
I read the story years ago in an alternative magazine, because she couldn’t get it published anywhere else. I have no reason to doubt it, the contact with the spiritual universe she made on the beach was the cure. Near death experiencers are always cured or greatly improved if the injuries are very severe. It is a little known benefit of the experience. I had been given six months to live, that was over twenty years ago. How can science measure/prove/duplicate the experience? Science can’t, you just enjoy the ride. Science is not the only way to measure life, not even the preferred way.
[/QUOTE]

Medical journals do not publish stories, they publish scientific studies. Which magazine published this story, and approximately when? Most importantly, since you seem to accept unvarified stories that defy logic and science on a regular basis, what would give you reason to doubt someone’s tale?

34

[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Medical journals do not publish stories, they publish scientific studies. Which magazine published this story, and approximately when? Most importantly, since you seem to accept unvarified stories that defy logic and science on a regular basis, what would give you reason to doubt someone’s tale?
[/QUOTE]

I told you what I remembered. The story did not defy spiritual logic and that’s why I accept it. It is a common occurrence in the realm of spirit. I don’t look for doubt, I look for spiritual correctness. If the correctness is absent, I just file it under don’t know.

35

[QUOTE=lekatt]
I told you what I remembered. The story did not defy spiritual logic and that’s why I accept it. It is a common occurrence in the realm of spirit. I don’t look for doubt, I look for spiritual correctness. If the correctness is absent, I just file it under don’t know.
[/QUOTE]
I think this tells us all we need to know about the usefulness and veracity of any cites you give us.

36

[QUOTE=lekatt]
I told you what I remembered. The story did not defy spiritual logic and that’s why I accept it. It is a common occurrence in the realm of spirit. I don’t look for doubt, I look for spiritual correctness. If the correctness is absent, I just file it under don’t know.
[/QUOTE]
But that seems silly. I mean, I could say right now “I had a spiritual experience. I saw a bright white light, and felt enveloped in pure love”, and by your approach you’d be forced to accept that as true.

Just because it could be something doesn’t mean it is. I mean, your approach assumes that no one has ever been mistaken about their experiences, or even that that’s possible. No one has ever lied. Is this accurate?

37

Since we’re including vaguely remembered things read somewhere, here’s one of mine. (Although it’s vaguely remembered enough that it might have been an item on a TV show.) The vaguely remembered bit referenced a study done on monks and meditative nuns. Their brain activity was monitored in some now-forgotten way. The hypothesis was that these mystical people would show signs of activity in some area of the brain that did not light up for normal people.

What they found was a darkening of a region that was believed to form the sense of self, as something separate from the world around. The meditators were losing track of themselves as separate beings. Presumably. By whoever was doing the study. If they were doing it right and if the reporter was reporting accurately.

Oh, here’s another. Vaguely remembered article about a study that found similar brain activity in readers and meditators. Not a related study, so there’s no clue whether readers “lose themselves”.

This thread is making me think of the song “I Wish I Was Here Tonight” by Backwoods Boogie. It’s been awhile since I heard it. Google was no help. I’ll have to think up a few more keywords. Hmmmm. Maybe if I lose myself, the words will come.

38

[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
But that seems silly. I mean, I could say right now “I had a spiritual experience. I saw a bright white light, and felt enveloped in pure love”, and by your approach you’d be forced to accept that as true.

Just because it could be something doesn’t mean it is. I mean, your approach assumes that no one has ever been mistaken about their experiences, or even that that’s possible. No one has ever lied. Is this accurate?
[/QUOTE]

I am never forced to believe anything is true. But if you came to me and said you had seen a bright white light and felt enveloped in pure love I would believe you unless you gave me some other reason to think you were not telling me the truth. Other reasons might be your demeanor, tone of voice, etc. Yes, it is true I don’t question others’ experiences unless they give reason to do so. I realize people do lie, but if I am to make a mistake let it be on the positive side instead of the negative. I have read thousands of experiences, some of which I have felt were made up. I have not posted questionable experiences on my site.

I am a positive person, spiritual people are positive people, that’s the nature of things. Let’s say you lied to me about your experience and you are a good liar and fooled me. Am I diminished? No. Are you diminished? Yes.

39

Okay, lekatt, that was your hundred-and-forty-fifth chance; don’t expect a hundred-and-forty-sixth. My pity for you is used up.

40

[QUOTE=Baldwin]
Okay, lekatt, that was your hundred-and-forty-fifth chance; don’t expect a hundred-and-forty-sixth. My pity for you is used up.
[/QUOTE]

I am grateful, pity is a negative emotion, quite useless.