I follow a former coworker on Instagram. She’s young, brilliant, driven and AFAICT quite successful in her gigs since we last worked together. Her Instagram, of course, isn’t business oriented – it’s about travel and nightlife and fun, all as it should be.
The other day, though, she posted several pictures of herself dressed as a Playboy bunny (presumably for Halloween), with the caption Playmate of the Year. They’re not over-the-top or NSFW, but they’re pretty sexy. She’s hot, and she knows it.
So this post got me wondering in all kinds of directions …
It’s 2021, and a woman can portray herself however she wants, and
Instagram isn’t LinkedIn, but
People she works for and with can still see these pics, and
They’re not just sexy but actually portray her as the embodiment of female objectification circa 1970, and
Yes I understand there’s a certain amount of irony in that, but still
This is a woman who often (and not inaccurately) complained to me while we were coworkers that her ideas weren’t taken seriously because she was a woman, and
Maybe people take you a little less seriously if they’re on a call with you but have a picture of you as a Playboy bunny in their heads, but then again
Maybe this isn’t just that big a deal to people in their 20s and 30s, and finally
Maybe I’m just a dirty old man and should get over it.
FWIW, my wife took one look and said, “What was she thinking?”
And BTW, this woman is a digital marketing manager by trade, so she knows exactly the kind of impact online images can have on how you’re perceived.
“Having to present the consummate professional image at all times and in all aspects” is certainly a technique or concern of some women (and men) in highly competitive professions, but, in any case, not posting anything at all hardly makes someone immune to sexism and sexist comments either, unfortunately. I.e., sexist pigs that your friend has to deal with did not become that way because she posted stuff; they were assholes to begin with.
As for people’s pictures, presumably there is a target audience, as strangers are not likely to care about some random person, much less “perceive” anything from some photos.
If you present yourself as an object, you should expect to be objectified. It may not be fair, but you can’t expect everyone to “get” what you’re trying to do, assuming you’re going for irony or some sort of social comment. I do wonder about the longevity of social media posts and to what extent they may come back to haunt those who post them.
Personally, I find the various and sundry “sexy” halloween costumes to be anywhere from tacky to kind of sickening. I don’t understand women who choose to present themselves that way. But it’s not up to me to make the rules and it certainly doesn’t affect me, nor do I expect those who choose to dress that way care in the least what I think.
I get that there’s a “What happens on Halloween, stays on Halloween” attitude out there. But these pics weren’t random party shots she happened to be in – they were carefully staged, only of her, and she’s consciously posing. And of course she chose to post them.
I don’t think it’s a good idea, which is why there are literally only two pictures of me online, both posted in the late 90s/early 00s (and one of them is me at age 5).
But I also get that it’s not how a lot of people think. A vast number of people don’t seem to understand the internet’s reach, and seem to think the only people that see their output is the people they want to see it; they’re shocked when they discover otherwise. When I worked in banking, someone’s digital resume included a link to his personal web page, which included a link to a BDSM site. I mentioned it to the applicant and he said “I didn’t think anyone would look!”
As us old people retire/die and the younger people take over will it matter so much? Many young people have all kinds of photos online. The person interviewing them will probably have embarrassing of themselves online.
I think if you can’t deal with your former coworker’s instagram you should stop following it.
Is the response of some people to what you describe still a problem? Sure, but 95% percent of the problem is people who go “of course I believe she should do whatever she wants, but …”. I think those people should think a little more about how they can be part of the solution instead of cheerleading for the prudes.
Thanks! My wife will always be my Playmate of the Year.
But really I’m not looking for people to criticize my former coworker here, because I think pretty highly of her and imagine she puts some thought into what she shares online. I kind of doubt this post will hurt her future job prospects. (I mean, it’s not like she’s sharing support for Trump or anything.) If anything, I was hoping some dopers would tell me I was getting worked up over nothing.
See? Like that!
But I can deal with it just fine. I just wanted to explore the range of thoughts it provoked.
I don’t think creating this thread is a big deal, but it isn’t exactly supportive of the idea that such posts shouldn’t be a problem. Imagine being someone who enjoys posting such pictures but haven’t noticed that lots of olds think it’s “bad” stumbling over this thread. I think it has a decent chance of making them feel less good about their choices. And I think several of the posters replying so far would either go “Well they should!” or are oblivious to how they come across.
But you went to the trouble of making this, and discussing it with Yo’ Internet Pals.
I’d do the same thing: I’d say “Hey, it’s her life, different generation.” But I’d think about it, and think about it, and ask a few friends about it, and my wife… all in an attempt to deal with “the range of thoughts it provoked.”
What I’d say to myself is “You’re dealing with it… but keep dealing with it. You ain’t done yet.”
They don’t have to “get it.” They just have to know that objectifying a person outside of certain specific contexts is wrong. No person is inviting you to objectify them in their professional life, unless that’s part of their job (e.g. a stripper or camgirl). And pictures online is not a valid reason to objectify here in regular life. The sole place where you can objectify is in replies to that photo, and only in the form of telling her how good she looks. (Don’t cross the line into saying sexual things.)
All of that said, I can see one situation where this may be ill advised. That would be if she gives out this Instagram to people other than her friends or it is easily discoverable if you look up her real name. This wouldn’t be due to objectification, but simply due to how people do judge professionals by what they see of them in their private life. The risk may be low, but it’s always possible that you will do something in your private life that will push away clients. This isn’t even necessarily about sexy pics: it could be that someone is offended that you would mention Playboy, which they consider sexist. It might be that they think you’re not humble enough, showing off all this vacation stuff. They may see the nightlife stuff and subconsciously think you’re not as responsible.
If your Instagram is in any way connected with your professional life (which includes if you give it out publicly or use the same name for both) it just seems smart to me to cultivate the personality you want people to see.
That said, as someone in marketing, maybe this is exactly what she’s doing. She wants to be seen as fun in this way. She thinks that the few who would be turned off by it are less than those who would be okay with it, or has determined that it’s worth it. She’s her own person.
So do agree that none of this is worth caring about at the personal level. It’s an interesting discussion, but that’s all.
1960, actually. That’s when Playboy Clubs began. They were already controversial for being sexist by 1970.
Does your worry stem from the baggage the costume brings, or the costume itself? If the latter, would you be equally concerned if she posted pictures of herself in more revealing clothing?
I think the bigger concern is that she isn’t taken seriously, which seems to predate the pictures. If people at your work think she can’t be smart because she is attractive, that’s on them, not on her. I remember in the '60s (I was just a kid) a supposed study showing women’s IQs were inversely proportional to breast sizes. That’s how bad things were then. I had hoped we were over that kind of crap, maybe not.
I’m not sure you’re getting worked up over nothing, but you might be getting worked up over the wrong thing.
If she wishes to post pictures of herself as a Playboy bunny and it bothers you…that’s your problem, not hers.
If she has the self confidence of who she is, sexy and all…and is a consummate professional at work, and she’s not concerned about it…why are you bothered by it?
Since I made it through your entire post, I’d say there is a bit of “dirty old man” vibe coming from you, even if it has a paternal edge to it.
It strikes me as somewhat incongruous if someone would post sexy - or drunk/whatever - pics on-line, in a forum that they knew cow-orkers frequented, if they objected to being treated as anything other than entirely professional in the workplace. Reminds me of the person who dresses less than professionally/conservatively, and then objects to people reacting in certain ways.
There is a continuum of such behavior, and I’m not sure how far this action is along that continuum, but I think it somewhat ill-advised on her part.
I don’t have coworkers that post sexy pics. But I do have coworkers that post humor that would get you fired if you ever expressed that humor at work.
Funny how people don’t seem to have a problem separating those two things.
On the rare occasion when a friend (but non-coworker) posts something sexy, I won’t lie, I’ll give it a gander but I won’t like or comment as I get the impression she is posting that for feedback from her female friends.
True. I look at it like tatoos. When I was a kid in the early 70’s there was quite a stigma about them.
Now, not so much.
Can you still be passed over for hiring? Of course.
Are there certain professions where they need to be covered? Of course.
But I see many more tatoos on regular working people now than 40 - 50 years ago.
I think a social media presence will be similar. When a larger and larger number of people have possibly embarrassing pictures online it will be less of an issue.
I think I’d suggest it unwise to post something anywhere that is searchable by your name, if you don’t want anyone and everyone to see it and form opinions based on it. With current and potential employers at the top of the list.
Sure, it will likely get less and less significant as years pass. But it isn’t all that common to hear of someone experiencing unpleasant repercussions from something online that they did years or even decades ago - including before they were adults. I guess I perceive no benefit from posting questionable or misinterpretable stuff on line to outweigh any potential adverse repercussions.
