Three questions re. 9/11 & WTC

i)
There was some speculation that somebody with prior knowledge of the terrorist attacks had made a profit of it by playing the stock market. By short selling airline stocks (or much any stock) I suppose. And some EU institutions made formal investigations. Did they ever conclude anything?

ii)
The day (or a few days) after the attack some Canadian airlines found box cutter knives in the small pocket behind some seats. True of rumour? If true and a connection to 9/11 it seem to indicate they had inside help.

iii)
I read some reports that many of the hijackers didn’t know the ultimate plans of the hijacking. They thought it was just some regular old-style hijacks and only the leaders knew it was a suicide mission. Anything decisive on this?

rumor #1 http://www.snopes.com/rumors/putcall.htm

No data available on #2 & #3.

To echo Bosda this site has the best analysis of this Issue I have seen

Unlike a lot of the 9-11 conspiracy stuff, it is understandable why this one is still floating around as it does have some basis in fact. Suspicious stuff clearly happened but the bottom line is that the 9-11 Commission investigated and says no.

“Tucked away in a footnote on page 499 of the 9/11 Commission Report. The commissioners, basing their findings upon exhaustive research of millions of transactions by the Securities and Exchange Commission, note that “some unusual trading did in fact occur, but each such trade proved to have an innocuous explanation.” Moreover, “the trading had no connection with 9/11.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/rose/rose200407260700.asp

Nothing concrete but some hijackers were reportedly seen a few days prior to 9/11 in locations where you would not usually find Islamic faithful. Bars, strip clubs, that sort of thing.

Just a note: There is nothing to substantiate the claim that box cutters were used.

The media repeated something Ashcroft or Rumsfeld said, but box cutters were not revealed in any evidence or conversation during the hijackings.

IIRC, the box cutter (one) found on the Canadian flight turned out to be some sick prank to cause panic.

Re: iii):

There was a videotape made public of Bin Ladin dining with some people months after 9/11.

On this tape, he joked about the other hijackers’ ignorance of their ultimate fate.

(At least that’s what the transcripts claimed he said – I don’t speak whatever language Bin Ladin was speaking, so I gotta trust the translators).

(Unrelated: On this tape, Bin Ladin also commented that they didn’t expect the towers to collapse).

‘Reportedly’ being the key word.

iii) There was a lot of speculation about this. Supposedly, many of the terrorists were acting like they getting ready to go to jail, but not like they were going to die. It’s possible that only the pilots knew that they were going on a suicide mission.

I’m not quite sure how you tell the difference.

Barbara Olson, a passenger on American flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon, reported that the hijackers were carrying box cutters. Also, al Qaeda members in custody have said that they practiced bringing box cutters aboard aircraft during reconnaissance flights and claimed that cell leader Mohommad Atta had said he had done similarly and that he didn’t believe any other weapons would be necessary to carry out the attacks. (cite)

Ok, my PC is having fits with Adobe. I thought one passenger, Olsen, reported to her husband, Theodore Olsen, on a cell phone that the hijackers who herded her and other the passengers into the back of the plane had two kind of weapons: knives and cardboard cutters making her the only direct witness.

In any event, other reports of other weapons and psuedo weapons used get a lot less press.

The 9/11 Commission Report (p. 234-235) says that ‘willingness to martyr [one]self’ was an essential criterion in recruiting al Qaeda operatives, and that after the hijackers were chosen by UBL they were required to swear loyalty for a suicide operation and prepare a ‘martyrdom video’. (Islam expressly forbids suicide, so extremists refer to acts of suicidal terrorism as ‘martyrdom operations’.) On p. 245 it is said that some hijackers contacted their families to say goodbye, which was forbidden; this also suggests they were aware that they would die.

The report does say that most of the hijackers did not know the full details of the ‘planes operation’. This was probably to prevent the details from being discovered if one of them were arrested rather than to make them think they would survive. Someone who joined al Qaeda would do so with the knowledge that they would likely be asked to participate in a suicidal operation. They would also believe that this operation would make them a martyr who would receive special rewards in the afterlife.

The report doesn’t have anything about bars or strip clubs. It seems unlikely that the hijackers would do this, regardless of whether they knew they would die. All of them would surely have believed they were headed to an afterlife, and they would have believed their reward would include such things as one might find in a bar or a strip club. There would be little point in doing forbidden things when they believed they were only a few days from enjoying these things in unlimited amounts.

I belive that of the 31 hijackers, 19 were Saudi nationals and the remainder egyptians. Were any of these creepsknown to the Egyptian and Saudi police? What I found absolutley unbeliveable, was the absolute ease with which these monsters were granted visas and multiple entries into the USA. Which leads to my question: a morrocan national was removed from an AIR FRANCE flight last week (Paris-Washington DC). I recall that the plane was stopped at Bangor, Maine. Has this guy been found to be a terrorist?
The thought of more of these creeps actually getting INTO the US (at this late date)is pretty frightening. Especially in view of what almost happened in London-it looks like Al-Queda is still planning more hijackings.

Why do you find this absolutely unbelievable? I’d really like to know. They didn’t have criminal records. I’m not certain but I’d be pretty sure that when they got to the question on the US Immigration form that says: “Are you coming to the US to commit a terrorist act?” they fibbed.

It’s all very well and good to call them monsters but I think you’d find that outside of their heads, they’d look and act pretty much like regular guys.

[Bolding mine.] What almost happened in London, ralph124c?

Perhaps he’s referring to reports that Britain thwarted a 9/11 type attack.

Right, thanks. :slight_smile:

Do you just suck up the news and spit it back out on demand, Ralpf124c?

Do you think that if a REAL 11/9 disaster had been uncovered and stopped , the gov and media may have taken a bit more notice? Especially as we are being told that the UK will be safer under a re-elected Labour gov (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4036887.stm)

Do you think that a " non-attributable source", who was in “the arena” of the security services OR government" is proof that the greatest security success story to behold modern Britain actually happened?

How many people have been arrested with tails of terrorism and sleeper cells only to be released without charge a couple of months or years later? I dont think those stories get to the front page.

So you find the US letting people into the country “unbeliveable”. I dont know if you noticed, but before 11/9 - the US didnt know that 11/9 was going to happen.

A bit of skeptisism can be usefull in everyday life you know.

Sin