Whew, I understand very little of your problems, echidna and I’m generally an all-out sympathy kind of gal. It sounds like you have issues with touch and it’s affecting most of the areas of your life. I hope you get some help with all this. Your irritation and rage seems a bit out of proportion to me. Good luck.
True, but it’s one of the more obscure rules of etiquitte.
What about women who :rolleyes: at it, because it smacks of the old double standard, which we would dearly love to see eradicated?
I can only imagine her reaction when coming back to this thread…oh the humanity!
Hey! I used to live in Schaumburg! (I think we may have discussed that before)
Okay…anyone else on board with this? I was never told that the woman should initiate contact. Evah. I’d like to hear the general concensus on that.
News to me, but then, I’ve never claimed to be a gentleman.
Well, you, sir, are no lady.
Well, it appears others don’t share the opinion that women should be treated differently from men. I don’t have a very firm handshake. I won’t pull your hand off. I also didn’t invent this silly custom of professional handshakes. But to treat men and women differently doesn’t seem very professional.
Some men have touch issues as well. Should other men refrain from extending their hand to them for fear of violating their personal space? I don’t think the answer is necessarily no, but if men should be expected to shake other men’s hands the same goes for women. Trust me on this, the furthest thing from most men’s minds in the hand-shaking situation is establishing social dominance or copping a cheap feel (of a hand!) Which is certainly more than I can say for some of the other complaints you seem to have, which I didn’t read that closely as the first one sort of casts doubt on the objectivity of your reporting of the frequency of them.
To the OP - you’re not pretty enough to be this big of a bitch, causes that rant made you sound U-G-L-Y.
No respect,
Inky
PS - those men you refer to as buses? Tell me, how many of them peel out so fast they leave marks after learning what you’re really like?
I think maybe antiquated, as well. I can see this sort of thing being an issue pre-Vietnam war era, but now?
Jesus, what a fucking bitch! With a superiority complex and issues about men to boot. Lovely.
Dayum.
That’s all, just dayum.
I’ve finally found someone I wouldn’t trade my coworker in for.
I’ve never heard it either. When I became old enough and went out into the world of work, I assumed that peers–be they man or be they woman–were treating me as an equal and would shake my hand upon meeting me. I do the same. I shake everyone’s hand when I’m introduced to them and would never entertain the notion of being offended by a man who stuck out his hand to shake mine.
Classic illustration of the Hedgehog’s Dilemma.
Okay, I’ll stop now.
That’s true socially, but not in a business capacity. A subordinate worker would hold the door for a superior regardless of the respective genders. Same thing with shaking hands. The working world is gender free, etiquette-wise.
. . .you know, echidna, I have to agree with Ellen Cherry–you are definitely having issues with touching that are beyond the norm. Not every touch is designed to assist the Evil Males ™ in getting into your pants; most of the time, it’s just idle touching. Friendly touching, either.
I speak from experience. The first time one of my male friends touched me (a pat on the head after I’d known him for almost two years, nothing inappropriate, no sexual tension), I almost decked him. However, since I didn’t inform him beforehand that I didn’t like to be touched, I had no basis on which to complain. What he did was within normal, acceptable standards between friends.
You say that you want people to respect your boundaries, but your lines are clearly in a different place from most people. The rest of the world is not made up of psychics; they’re not going to know what your limits are unless you tell them.
I’m not even going to touch the gender issues. I mean, really, what the hell does gender have to do with shaking hands? There are obvious issues there, as well, but that’s beyond my experience and expertise.
First, there are a great deal of men out there who feel that females in service jobs are there for their pawing pleasure. If this is the case, I apologize on behalf of men who do not gratuitously paw.
However, if this is a complaint about any and all incidental contact (like Sexual Harassment Girl form 24), you are on your own.
Second, very many people see shaking hands as a standard greeting. Some men, accustomed to a firm handshake, do not correct for smaller hands. This can be painful (or so I’m told). If this is the true form of the complaint, you have my sympathy. If it is about incidental touching again, you are on your own. Not all touching is sexual in nature.
Third, don’t assume your boss is a mind reader. If you want to be involved in the solution, involve yourself. Learn to do that, and take it to every future job. You’ll learn how different bosses solve different problems and hopefully learn some pointers about what to do and what not to do for the day when you become a boss.
Fourth, don’t assume shy guy is a mind reader. Many men feel very vulnerable and open when approaching a woman. Not all of us (certainly not me) feel comfortable with the cold-calling approach [ask enough, one will eventually say yes]. Believe it or not, you can ask him to have a cup of coffee with you. If you are so smitten with this person not your boyfriend, do your boyfriend a favor and release him, regardless of whether you’ll continue to complain about shy guy not coming forward or you take the reins into your own hand. It is obvious he (current boyfriend) is not the one you want.
Lastly, be prepared to swallow your pride with great regularity in the “professional culture into which I will soon be thrust”. It’s a daily occurrence for most of the workforce. (This does not mean you have to submit to harassment. It means, I don’t know of any individual not the boss’ child / child-in-law / sibling’s child who doesn’t start out thinking the job s/he is doing is below him / her.)
Amen! If I were treated any differently than my male colleagues in a work situation, I’d be very offended.
It made me wonder if she’s not interpreting something sexual into something that was not meant to be sexual by the guys who were doing it. It’s not sexual every time a man touches a woman he doesn’t know.
I’d never heard the “a man should never initiate a handshake with a woman” rule, either, and now that I have heard of it, I think it’s the kind of extreme sexist stupidity that can’t be forgotten soon enough.
Why are you writing your boss a long “heart wrenching” email? Don’t you young folks have LiveJournal or MySpace pages for that shit?
Mr Bossman,
I’d like to schedule some time to speak with you about our contract cleaning service. They have engaged in unprofessional behavior, and I would like to see if there is anything that can be done about it.
Sincerely,
Crazy Bitch
I think everyone is being way too hard on the OP. Just think what it must be like to be so very powerless, so constantly oppressed and abused, so…
Oh wait. She’s a psycho who thinks that anything that isn’t to her liking is automatically wrong. Especially if it comes attached to a penis. Also, I don’t think she knows what Manichean means.