[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima]
Bah. Fuck grammar, maybe this whole making Excalibre sammiches and babies isn’t such a bad idea. 
[/QUOTE]
Um, sweetpea, I don’t know how to tell you this, but I’m not sure I’m into making babies . . .
Yeah, I know, I know. But I can’t spend all my time making you sammiches.
Men aren’t allowed to offer to shake a woman’s hand? I’ve never heard that before in my life. I must be a terrible woman. eyerolls here
To the OP: If you don’t like being touched, that’s fine, really. No one is saying you have to do things you’re not comfortable with. But you need to make that perfectly and directly clear to the people you are dealing with, not us. Pretty much everything you mentioned except for the flashing sounds perfectly standard and, reading between the lines, a lot less hostile/creepy than you’re trying to make them sound.
Also, as has been said, why would you demand the guy you like do something that you feel you’re too good to do yourself?
Really, you might just want to quit your job with those “cow-porkers” and stop talking to that guy, and your boyfriend. For all their sakes. And (this is serious) try to get some counseling.
You may also want to cut back on the really random hyperbole, it doesn’t much help your case. You may want to take a cue from DiosaBellisima, the incidents she brought up are phrased in a legitimate way, plus she appears to have handled them all well and intelligently.
[QUOTE=Scumpup]
Cut echidna some slack. After dealing with my first wife’s craziness when she was on the rag, I recognize a PMS-fired rage when I see one.
[/QUOTE]
Wow-how incredibly sexist. Where did she mention menstruation? How handy to have that to pigeonhole a woman. :rolleyes:
I do sympathize with the OP’s fed up-ness with being checked out and pawed. It’s nasty and can be constant. Don’t get the handshaking thing or the soon to be BF(?) thing, at all.
And I doubt she’s coming back as well… <insert rueful smiley here>
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
Wow-how incredibly sexist. Where did she mention menstruation? How handy to have that to pigeonhole a woman. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
Whoosh!
[QUOTE=Excalibre]
Um, sweetpea, I don’t know how to tell you this, but I’m not sure I’m into making babies . . .
[/QUOTE]
You have heard of turkey basters, haven’t you? :dubious:
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
The hand-shaking phobia of today is as obnoxious as all get-out. And the male superiority issue you tacked onto it is out of line. Take a pill and toss back a shooter. You need to relax. And a quick refresher in manners wouldn’t kill ya, either.
[/QUOTE]
All the ancient [read 40s 50s and 60s] manners books I have read specifically state that the woman is to offer he hand NOT the man. If and only if the woman offers her hand is there handhaking ensuing. I very specifically will not shake hands unless I offer my hand first. Granted, I tend to offer my hand for business introductions like interviews or fairly important guests, but I don’t like being touched by people I dont know.
[QUOTE=aruvqan]
All the ancient [read 40s 50s and 60s] manners books I have read specifically state that the woman is to offer he hand NOT the man. If and only if the woman offers her hand is there handhaking ensuing. I very specifically will not shake hands unless I offer my hand first. Granted, I tend to offer my hand for business introductions like interviews or fairly important guests, but I don’t like being touched by people I dont know.
[/QUOTE]
So if a man offers his hand to you, you do what? Flinch from the mancooties?
[QUOTE=Engineer Dude]
[looks around]…
I don’t think she’s coming back.
[/QUOTE]
A fact that you can blame on the male dopers pawing all over her post.
[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
So if a man offers his hand to you, you do what? Flinch from the mancooties?
[/QUOTE]
Well, yeah.
I thought the OP was an excellent rant, if a little psychotic and dis-jointed.
[QUOTE=aruvqan]
All the ancient [read 40s 50s and 60s] manners books I have read specifically state that the woman is to offer he hand NOT the man. If and only if the woman offers her hand is there handhaking ensuing. I very specifically will not shake hands unless I offer my hand first. Granted, I tend to offer my hand for business introductions like interviews or fairly important guests, but I don’t like being touched by people I dont know.
[/QUOTE]
You do realize that they are ancient in cultural terms, right? You didn’t nap through that whole feminism thing, did you? If you offered your hand to a man and he refused to shake it, would you be okay with that?
Perhaps my understanding of “manners” and “etiquette” is lacking, but I don’t see what could possibly be “polite” about refusing to reciprocate a greeting, or participate in a widely accepted and expected social nicety.
[QUOTE=DianaG]
You do realize that they are ancient in cultural terms, right? You didn’t nap through that whole feminism thing, did you? If you offered your hand to a man and he refused to shake it, would you be okay with that?
Perhaps my understanding of “manners” and “etiquette” is lacking, but I don’t see what could possibly be “polite” about refusing to reciprocate a greeting, or participate in a widely accepted and expected social nicety.
[/QUOTE]
…or in short, "It ain’t the 40’s, 50’s, and 60’s anymore.
[QUOTE=echidna]
Do *not *stick out your hand to me, or I will refuse to shake it.
[/QUOTE]
I suppose, then, that a handjob is RIGHT out? Ah well… 
[QUOTE=bluethree]
For those who are wondering, the reason some men and women give women weak handshakes of the fingers is that women are sometimes known to wear rings with big stones on them, and you may cause them undue pain by giving them a firm handshake.
You may not have known the reason why you were taught to give women those sorts of handshakes, but now you do.
Nevertheless, it is not incorrect to give a woman a firm handshake. Based on the opinions expressed in this thread, I’d say it’s the way to go.
I really enjoyed your posts, DiosaBellisima and Nava.
[/QUOTE]
Why, thank you!
The solution to the ring problem (which would affect guys too): make sure you’re grabbing the palm and not the fingers.
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima]
I have no idea why so many men think it is ok to touch me, but they do- at the gym, at the store, etc.
[/QUOTE]
Well, maybe it’s because you accept it, and take no action to stop it.
A quick slap in the face and saying (loudly) “Get your hands off me, you pervert!” will do a lot toward making sure that person doesn’t do it to you again.
And calling for the manager, and asking them if it’s store policy for their employees to grope the customers, and if the regional manager approves of that at this location, etc. will do something toward making sure that person doesn’t do it to anyone else, either.
Yeah, that’s a hassle, and probably embarassing for you, but as long as you and other young women permit these jerks to get away with it, it’s going to continue. The decent, well-behaved men can’t do much to stop this, until you object to it. Publicly, loudly, right when it happens. Not later on, in a post here – all we can do then is commiserate with you about the crap you have to go thru. But if you complain at the time, we can back you up and do or say things to make it clear to the groper that his actions are not appropriate. Maybe even vigorously.
But you have to start this, by objecting to this iinappropriate treatment.
[QUOTE=aruvqan]
All the ancient [read 40s 50s and 60s] manners books I have read …/QUOTE]
Didn’t etiquette in those days also dictate that blacks had to sit in the back of the bus?
Guess what? Things have changed since then.
[QUOTE=Polerius]
[QUOTE=aruvqan]
All the ancient [read 40s 50s and 60s] manners books I have read …
[/QUOTE]
Didn’t etiquette in those days also dictate that blacks had to sit in the back of the bus?
Guess what? Things have changed since then.
[/QUOTE]
And since we’re talking about etiquette, a quick Google search shows that modern etiquette says
[QUOTE=DianaG]
You do realize that they are ancient in cultural terms, right? You didn’t nap through that whole feminism thing, did you? If you offered your hand to a man and he refused to shake it, would you be okay with that?
Perhaps my understanding of “manners” and “etiquette” is lacking, but I don’t see what could possibly be “polite” about refusing to reciprocate a greeting, or participate in a widely accepted and expected social nicety.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, I am only 44, i grew up in the sexual revolution. I simply like to read [i would read in my sleep if i could keep my eyes open] I have even read books on 17 and 1800s manners.
Now books from the 1800s are ancient, but I refuse to consider a time period that a serious majority of upper level business hominids belongs to [boomers] to be ancient.
And yes, if a man refused my hand it would not bother me one bit.
A 50 year old novel isn’t ancient. A 50 year old book on etiquette is. It’s a relic of another time.
Refusing to shake hands is rude. If you want to be rude, that’s fine, but own it. Don’t attempt to convince the rest of us that we’re vulgar for not observing obsolete social mores.
[QUOTE=aruvqan]
I refuse to consider a time period that a serious majority of upper level business hominids belongs to [boomers] to be ancient.
[/QUOTE]
Isn’t this the time period when it was considered OK for a boss to treat his female subordinates in a manner that we consider appalling today?
So, you refuse to consider this period ancient as far as female-male interactions in the workplace go?