To All the Irritating People in My Life

[Kalhoun]

The world is so different, and changes so quickly, that I wouldn’t bother with an etiquette book that was more than about 5 years old. But they make great paper weights!

[Ogre]

So then this one didn’t go at all like the OP thought it would.

Heh. It’s been amusing, though.

[Scumpup]

@aruvqan

Actually, I am only 44, i grew up in the sexual revolution. I simply like to read [i would read in my sleep if i could keep my eyes open] I have even read books on 17 and 1800s manners.

Now books from the 1800s are ancient, but I refuse to consider a time period that a serious majority of upper level business hominids belongs to [boomers] to be ancient.

And yes, if a man refused my hand it would not bother me one bit.

Lessee…I’m 44 too. I remember lots of things people used to do, too. The thing is that customs and fashions change. You may think of yourself as (quaintly) old fashioned by clinging to the decorum of the past, but for the most part you’ll probably just come off as an ass.

That great maven, Miss Manners, has said numerous times that the whole point of manners is to make people feel comfortable. Do you think refusing a man’s handshake, especially in a business environment, achieves that end?

[Finagle]

@Count Blucher

making her work with the public is like sending a trainwreck in search of a school bus.

I just wanted to say that this is one of the nicer turns of phrase I’ve run across lately.

[Excalibre]

@Scumpup

Lessee…I’m 44 too. I remember lots of things people used to do, too. The thing is that customs and fashions change. You may think of yourself as (quaintly) old fashioned by clinging to the decorum of the past, but for the most part you’ll probably just come off as an ass.

That great maven, Miss Manners, has said numerous times that the whole point of manners is to make people feel comfortable. Do you think refusing a man’s handshake, especially in a business environment, achieves that end?

Obviously it doesn’t, but people will come up with any excuse, it seems, to be rude. aruvqan is clearly one more in a long line of boorish people coming up with nonsensical excuses for their rude behavior.

[Unauthorized_Cinnamon]

@Scumpup

That great maven, Miss Manners, has said numerous times that the whole point of manners is to make people feel comfortable. Do you think refusing a man’s handshake, especially in a business environment, achieves that end?

Who would have thought, Miss Manners and Penn & Teller’s Bullshit! agreeing completely. Isn’t there a famous legend about a graceful hostess drinking from the finger bowl, in imitation of a bumpkin guest, in order to make him feel at ease and not embarrassed?

I can’t imagine how snubbing a good-faith greeting and leaving someone with their hand hanging there could be good manners.

[John_Corrado]

@AerynSun

I can’t imagine how snubbing a good-faith greeting and leaving someone with their hand hanging there could be good manners.

Meh. It often seems that there are two types of “manners”:

#1: Social conventions and responsibilities designed to foster interaction and make people comfortable in a social or business environment.

#2: Intricate social conventions designed to prove who is upper class and who is not based upon how well one is able to remember and reference an arbitrary system of rules. Usually used by the upper-middle and middle class to prove their worth.

Thankfully, #1 seems to be becoming more and more common, though I know far too many people who ruthlessly cling to #2.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@John Corrado

Meh. It often seems that there are two types of “manners”:

#1: Social conventions and responsibilities designed to foster interaction and make people comfortable in a social or business environment.

#2: Intricate social conventions designed to prove who is upper class and who is not based upon how well one is able to remember and reference an arbitrary system of rules. Usually used by the upper-middle and middle class to prove their worth.

Thankfully, #1 seems to be becoming more and more common, though I know far too many people who ruthlessly cling to #2.

I was raised with good manners by poor people. I am confident in social settings because I know I have good manners, not because I know all the rules of the game and how to play it. If people around me are playing status games (and with me, even), I’m blissfully unaware of it. So I guess my point is chalk me up as someone with #1 manners who isn’t even aware of #2 manners. (heh)

[gonzomax]

Thanks for the lose lose. If you dont offer to shake hands with a woman its because you dont respect her as a person. If you do you are invading her space and threateing hand rape.
How about if we just ignore them. It would be so much easier than facing a potential conflict for such a tiny self induced problem.

[ENugent]

@Scumpup

That great maven, Miss Manners, has said numerous times that the whole point of manners is to make people feel comfortable. Do you think refusing a man’s handshake, especially in a business environment, achieves that end?

Um, cite? My memory is that Miss Manners says that often manners includes making people feel profoundly uncomfortable, for example by being scrupulously polite and friendly to your ex’s new squeeze, making her wonder whether you’re happy to be rid of him and why.

[Polerius]

One of the things I find interesting about echidna, is that from the public profile she seems like an easy-going fun-loving tomboy

Interests:
Soccer, baseball, working on my car, rootin for the PISTONS in the playoffs! COME LET’S TAKE GAME 5!!!

So, I’m not sure if the OP is just a humorous attempt at looking like a psycho bitch, or is an unintentional revelation that behind that fun-loving tomboy image she really is a psycho bitch.

[descamisado]

@bluethree

. . . Miss Manners readers are aware that traditionally a lady initiates a handshake with a man. Also that you never, ever leave somebody with his hand sticking out and looking like a fool. . .

This all still seems rooted in manners the were current around the turn of the century (1800s-1900s); so, would a “loidy” left with hand sticking say to the errant gentleman, “Please, kind sir, you cain’t just leave me hangin’, dawg.”?

[ENugent]

Found it. In Miss Manners’ Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior (2005 edition), she says at page 24

@Miss Manners

Miss Manners is sensitive to this because she often hears the great and subtle art of etiquette describes as being “just a matter of making other people feel comfortable.” As if etiquette weren’t magnificently capable of being used to make other people feel uncomfortable.

All right. Miss Manners will give you an example, although you are spoiling her Queen Victoria mood: If you are rude to your ex-husband’s new wife at your daughter’s wedding, you will make her feel smug. Comfortable. If you are charming and polite, you will make her feel uncomfortable. Which do you want to do?

Which is not to say that there is any justification for coldly refusing to accept a man’s handshake in a business situation.

[descamisado]

@5-4-Fighting

This all still seems rooted in manners the were current around the turn of the century (1800s-1900s); so, would a “loidy” left with hand sticking say to the errant gentleman, “Please, kind sir, you cain’t just leave me hangin’, dawg.”?

manners that were current. Sorry. My bad, me loidy.

[descamisado]

@ENugent

Um, cite? My memory is that Miss Manners says that often manners includes making people feel profoundly uncomfortable, for example by being scrupulously polite and friendly to your ex’s new squeeze, making her wonder whether you’re happy to be rid of him and why.

I see as old and hidebond as she probably is, Mss Manners defiinitely has read “The Art of the Whoosh.”

[eleanorigby]

@Miller

Whoosh!

Must learn to be more alert in the Pit…

And git yer filthy paws offa me!

[Scumpup]

@5-4-Fighting

I see as old and hidebond as she probably is, Mss Manners defiinitely has read “The Art of the Whoosh.”

Fo’ shizzle. Just gone done checking my 1983 copy of "Guide to… " but you have beaten me to the punch.