To Quit or Not To Quit

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

[QUOTE=Chimera]
Don’t quit. Stop being late. Stop stressing. Find another job first.

They’re TRYING to stress you out and make you quit, so that they don’t have to pay you unemployment. You’re playing along.
[/QUOTE]

Also, if you keep coming in late, then that could become part of the justification for being fired, and you might be ineligible for UI benefits. It’s often possible to collect UI after being fired, for example if there were performance issues following a change of assignment that you didn’t ask for. But if you slack off, then that could figure into the firing itself.

I’ve always wondered what they mean about a person “not fitting in” in an office. What is that? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a person “not fit in” at work.

22

[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
How can you possibly know what they have documented? What, did you ask them and they told you that? If so, you are a giant lollipop.
[/QUOTE]

Some bosses can be right bastards. Once, during performance reviews at my last job, my manager, who usually didn’t say boo to me all year long, told me that during the preceding year a mistake on my part had nearly cost $7M, but fortunately had been averted at the last moment. He couldn’t tell me what system it was (I supported several), when it was, or who did the averting.

23

[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus]
<snip>
I’ve always wondered what they mean about a person “not fitting in” in an office. What is that? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a person “not fit in” at work.
[/QUOTE]

I’ve been the person not fitting in in the past. Some workplaces have a distinct culture, and if you don’t play ball the way they play ball, you won’t fit it. It can be something like everyone likes to gossip and backbite, and if you don’t gossip and backbite, YOU will be the one gossiped about and backbit. There are many ways to not fit in at an office.

pbbth, I don’t think you have anything to lose by sitting down with your supervisor and asking them what the hell is going on. Remind her that you were told you were going to be fired, and you need to make your own plans - what are they planning to do, and when? Telling someone you are going to fire them and then not doing it, but making their job difficult is just plain bullshit. Call her on it.

24

Another thought: my guess is that they haven’t spoken to you about this in so long because they’re currently searching for your replacement. Not to be alarmist, but have you checked your company’s intranet or employment listings? I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you found a listing strikingly similar to your current job description. I was in a very similar situation long, long ago and they waited so long because they were looking for someone to fill my shoes. Particularly at larger companies, the interview process can take forever.

I’d third or fourth the people who said to shape up - even if they aren’t keeping documentation against you, you don’t want their ill will. I think employers’ HR departments are prohibited from saying anything other than confirming that you worked there and verifying your salary during an employment history check; however, especially as you seek employment for your position immediately after the one you’re in, there’s nothing preventing them from making an off-the-record side comment about your tardiness and disinterest.

25

This is an interesting thought…could I honestly sit down with my boss and basically tell her to put up or shut up? Even if I was very polite and formal about the whole thing would this be insubordination or some other immediately firable (with cause) offense? It seems to me that going in and bringing up the subject is the equivalent of turning in my notice and so far the advice is leaning towards trying to keep my job as long as possible.

26

I can’t give you current advice, pbbth, I’ve been out of the job market too long.

But if you do go in to ask what’s going on, do so by specifically referencing the previous meeting. Take in some notes, that at least appear to have been written back when you were told that you were likely to be fired because you don’t fit in. DO NOT GO IN JUST WITH YOUR UNASSISTED MEMORY. Write down what the meeting was, when it was, who was there, and what was said, as best as you can remember.

Use those notes to base your questions off of - say, “Based on our conversation of such and such a date, I was told that I was going to be terminated soon. I’d like to know if that’s still the case, and whether you can give me a revised timeline on that, so I can better plan my own finances.” Or whatever non-threatening reasons you care to use. Do not make it an accusation, just a request for information.

Just my advice, and worth at least three times what you paid for it. :wink:

27

[QUOTE=overlyverbose]
I think employers’ HR departments are prohibited from saying anything other than confirming that you worked there and verifying your salary during an employment history check; however, especially as you seek employment for your position immediately after the one you’re in, there’s nothing preventing them from making an off-the-record side comment about your tardiness and disinterest.
[/QUOTE]

IANAL, but as far as I know it’s not illegal to comment on an employee’s or former employee’s performance, but most business voluntarily restrict themselves to employment verification out of fear of being sued by the employee for giving a poor critique.

It’s been a while since I studied employment law, so things may have changed.

28

And now a twist:

I just got off the phone with a company about setting up an interview on Thursday. They want to interview me on Thursday and then if that goes well have a second interview on Tuesday. If that goes well then I would start my new job there the following Monday. The pay is a little bit less per year but it would take almost 3 hours a day off of my total commute time.

If I take those two days for interviewing I will almost certianly lose my job here whether or not I get hired at the new company, but the new company does not do after hours or weekend interviews. So do I go speak to my boss this afternoon and see if I can get her to go ahead with the firing/tell her tomorrow is my last day or do I turn down the interview for this new job?

29

[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus]
Some bosses can be right bastards. Once, during performance reviews at my last job, my manager, who usually didn’t say boo to me all year long, told me that during the preceding year a mistake on my part had nearly cost $7M, but fortunately had been averted at the last moment. He couldn’t tell me what system it was (I supported several), when it was, or who did the averting.
[/QUOTE]

I’ve “not fit in” several times in my 30 years of working because I won’t simply do what I’m told when it’s illegal, unethical, dangerous and/or stupid. Or a violation of company policy. Or when I have a problem with someone else acting badly and that person is a personal friend/family friend of the boss or a higher level person, and/or a protected person. (Yeah, I have this thing about people threatening my life, my person, my property and my personal life. Hell no, I won’t just suck it up and wait for them to assault me.)

That’s when the Management wheels start to turn to “We need to get rid of this Chimera fellow. He’s causing problems.”

In regards to your quote above, about 15 years ago I had a boss note something on my annual review that had happened more than six months previously and had never been mentioned up to that point. I demanded that it be removed from my review on the grounds that if he didn’t say something about it at the time, then there was nothing we could do about it NOW, and I wasn’t going to accept being drubbed for it that far after the fact. He refused. I refused to sign my review. I then went straight to his boss, who immediately ordered it removed from my review on the same grounds.

Curiously enough I was terminated from my last position in a similar manner to pbbth’s situation. Hell, they knew I was working on getting another job, but they still went out of their way to invent things or blow them wildly out of proportion and come up with a list of things to terminate me for, none of which on it’s own merits would be enough to terminate me.

One of those things was an alleged (and I believe, made up, because I have no memory of any such thing) event involving the HR Director 7.5 months earlier, which had never been mentioned at any point in the interceding time and had not prevented her from having several pleasant conversations with her in that time…but upon my termination it was declared that she was “afraid” of me and I was therefore barred from any further contact with the entire HR department!

The thing is, if they want to get rid of you, they can “lay paper” over every little thing, often creating things out of whole cloth where they don’t actually exist. Up to the point where they can say that they have enough to let you go. They can give you written warnings for being “unprofessional” with your co-workers because you went “What the hell?!?” when your co-worker said something nasty to you. They can lose paperwork and blame it on you.

Hell, at one position where the guy was trying to get rid of me because he was pushing all the consultants out the door* and creating excuses to do so, I was ordered not to do something on Friday, then let go on Monday for not doing it!

:eek:

  • They hired an IT manager who was a consultant with his own company. Within a month, everyone NOT working for his company either changed over to his company or was forced out the door. I had a non-compete clause. Bye bye!
30

[QUOTE=pbbth]
So do I go speak to my boss this afternoon and see if I can get her to go ahead with the firing/tell her tomorrow is my last day or do I turn down the interview for this new job?
[/QUOTE]

I think you are missing a single point here with all of these posts.

Don’t do anything in your current job that will get you fired. Zip. Nada.

If your Thursday interview isn’t scheduled first thing so you could walk in late to your current job, take a sick day. And then, if you get a second interview, and it’s also not first thing in the morning, take another sick day. It’s been my experience that you must have three consecutive sick days off in a row before your employer can demand a doctor’s note. (And if they fire you for taking those “sick” days, you get your wish.)

It’s never a good idea to set yourself up to get fired from a job. Somewhere, someplace down the job road it will come back to haunt you.

With all due respect, it’s foolish to allow yourself to get played by your current employer. Quit playing their game.

31

I agree with Duckster - don’t give up your interviews with the other company, but don’t give notice yet, either.

I don’t think going in to discuss this with your supervisor is insubordination, either. I think OtakuLoki phrased it very well. If they were changing your duties or you were moving to another position, you would be discussing it with your supervisor; this is along the same lines.

32

[QUOTE=pbbth]

The unscheduled days off I have taken for the last month have been for 1 hospital visit and 2 interviews. I have another interview later this week. I am fast running out of PTO though and if they don’t get around to firing me soon I will be fired, with cause, for taking time off of work that I don’t have PTO to account for and then I will be screwed unemployment-wise, which is why I’d like them to get around to firing me before that point so I at least have a shot of filing. I know it isn’t a guarantee but if I quit it isn’t an option at all and if I keep interviewing for other positions I will be fired with cause here in a couple of weeks and I will lose any shot I had at filing unemployment.
[/QUOTE]

Former NYC HR Drone checking in here.

As an aside, I am also shocked beyond all that you were TOLD you were being fired, and not actually fired. I can’t see any HR person with even a quarter of a brain advising that manager to go ahead with that meeting. That’s a little scary to me, actually.

I quoted you, because, well, yes. You have already answered your own question above. It is a small company? Are they in financial trouble? Companies will pull some pretty underhanded shit when they’re tanking.

Trust me, if they really ARE going to fire you, they are gathering ammo to fire you for cause. THIS is a classic HR thing - HR tells managers to “compile info and document everything.” YOU don’t have to be shown any of it, until, of course, they day you are fired. And even then, you may not see it all. I have seen many others use this (and personally been in terminations) where this tactic was used.

So MY advice to you is STOP GIVING THEM AMMUNITION. As far as the job interviews, I am not really sure what to tell you. But it seems to me that, unfortunately, you kinda shot yourself in the foot by your “Take THAT, Evil Employer, I Call Your Bluff!” antics. Cut it out and keep your nose clean for now, and try to keep off the radar.

Hopefully, you haven’t given them enough to let you go for cause.