Nah. Reagan did some lame stuff, like Iran/Contra and supporting brutal right-wing death squads in South America, but even he wasn’t stupid enough to commit our troops to a quagmire like Iraq, nor stupid enough to alienate our allies. There wasn’t the same sense of urgency about defeating Reagan for re-election. And BTW, he wasn’t a “dunce”; he had Alzheimer’s.
I plan to move into a cave and choke on my own bile. I will sit in the dark, alone, in my excrement. The stench will be great. (Trying to plagiarize from Coneheads, not sure of the exact wording). Seriously and honestly, whoever wins, I will probably find something to bitch about.
You know, for a vast majority of elections, I agree with you, things get blown way out of proportion. There is no doubt that Iran Hostage situation, Iran/Contra, Whitewater, No New Taxes, etc. are all important issues, but not necessarily ones that will cause catastrophic damage to the county. And the partisan squabbling will always be a part of the election scene.
However, I do honestly believe this election is different. Four years ago, I didn’t. I figured neither Bush nor Gore would do great things, or do horrible things, that would irreparably harm America. More of the same. However, the last four years have changed my view. I do believe Bush is doing a great deal of harm to the country, and another four years could even more severely damage America.
His bigoted hatred of gays, his rollback of environmental protection legislation, his blurring of the line of separation of church and state, his future appointment of Supreme Court justices, his, for the first time ever in the history of the United States, preemptive war, his willingness to ignore international relations, his conta-conservative fiscal plan sending the country into a spiraling debt, his fundamentalist viewpoint, the poor economy, and the divisiveness found in the political realm are not just doing immediate, temporary harm, but, I think, will damage the credibility, the economic stability, the Constitution, and the entire atmosphere in America.
Four years ago, I never even contemplated we would be in this position, and I’m terrified of giving him four more years. I never felt this way about any election before, and, aside from Lincoln and Truman historically, I never thought all that much was riding on the presidential election. I don’t believe I suffer from hysterics, delusions, or close mindedness, but I sincerely think this is the most important election I’ve ever participated in. The results of this election will have more far-reaching implications than any for 40 years.
That doesn’t mean I’m disowning my Republican sister, that I regret voting for his dad, that Clinton was a good president, or that the world’s going to end because of this election. Nor does it mean I’ll be turning into another mindless Bush hating drone like Reeder or Stoid. But, if Bush is re-elected, I fear very bad things will happen to America.
What do you plan to do once the election is over?
I’m going to pray for a viable third party candidate, and for the two major party candidates, whomever they may be, develop hunchbacks and facial just before the televized debates.
Well put, Hamlet. My views, only eloquenter.
If what I’m thinking of is correct, the chai tea/tai chi is a simpsons reference. It’s the episode where Homer gets the crayon pulled out of his brain and his IQ goes up. He asks Lisa how she deals with rampant anti-intellectualism. She replies about doing tai chi and drinking chai tea…I clearly watch to much Simspons :smack:
Anywho, when the election ends, I’ll likely go back to gritting my teeth and yelling at the radio news if Bush wins, or just shrug and say whew if Kerry wins. I’ll pray for a quick end to the NHL strike, which is really the only reason I have been as into the race as I am (just needs me to follow some competition). I’ll pop into GD or BBQ and marvel at the anti-whatsis face threads and check how many pages it takes before an intelligent thread drops down to the debate level of eight year olds.
I guess pretty much the same as I do now, except I’ll miss the debate watching threads. Those have been fun. 
Well, said, Starving Artist and Hamlet. And I just wanted to add this, since it’s been running through my head:
I believe I’ve passed the age
Of consciousness and righteous rage
I found that just surviving was a noble fight
I once believed in causes too
I had my pointless point of view
And life went on no matter who was wrong or right
Billy Joel, “Angry Young Man”. (The Live Behind the Iron Curtain version is awesome.)
I’m sure that’s true for a lot of people and in some ways, everyone changes. But if liberal causes and pacifism and political activism are central to your nature, that isn’t going to go away so easily as one ages. I’m more peaceful within, I think, but no less concerned.
I disagree with you that people think that the stakes are higher all the time. I have never witnessed a more contentious election. (I can remember 14 Presidential campaigns. The only one that came close, in my opinion, was in 1968.)
I saw this country torn apart by a very bad President who resigned from office rather than face certain impeachment and removal. Have you ever heard of a man being pardoned before an indictment could be brought? That’s what it took to heal this country. He was common and mean. He even kept an “Enemies List” of people who criticized him and then used his position of power to have them investigated so that information could be used against them if he chose to. He covered up crimes. He lied about what was going on in Southeast Asia. And I want to assure you that it wasn’t “the Democrats” who brought him down.
In my opinion, he was not nearly the threat to this country that George W. Bush is. Not by half.
Give me a Powell/McCain ticket in any order and I will vote Republican. This is not a party issue for me.
So when this election is over, I will continue to be a supporter of liberal issues and liberal/moderate candidates. I support organizations such as the NRDC, Amnesty International, and the ACLU. There’s plenty to do.
Yes, I know. I was a conservative when I was young and, of course, I still am now. And I was incensed over certain things then, and I still am now.
But I have a better sense of the overall big picture now. I can more easily recognize why things happen a certain way and I’m more philosophical about them. There were certain specific things in those days that infuriated me and now when I look back on them, they seem either pretty silly or just plain insignificant. Either that, or I can see now that my POV itself was skewed.
I think your comment about being more peaceful within (and mine about making an effort to become so before it is too late) is pretty much what I was driving at.
Regards. 
See, this is why things are so vitriolic. Partisans on each side are wrapping themselves up in hyperbole and stretching things from “this public figure is moving in a direction I do not agree with” to “the country is DOOMED if we dare to elect this man who will DESTROY everything in our lives!”
As evinced by… agreeing to civil unions and opposing gay marriage? Which an overwhelming majority of the country agrees with him on? Please name any other evidence of his ‘bigoted hatred of gays’ beyond the gay marriage issue. Any. There has been no roll-back of civil rights for gays, there has been no change in federal legislation on gays; there has only been this one issue. I don’t agree with him on this issue either, but there’s a long way from “against gay marriage” to “would have joined in the beating of Matthew Shepard.”
Again, cite? He is firmly behind legislation to allow churches- any churches, not merely Christian churches- to work with the government in dealing with social problems. If you think that this is the first step towards Bush’s eventual Theocracy, I would remind you that the Salvation Army refused to support the measure because it would allow Wiccan churches to receive funds.
Please indicate how the following were not pre-emptive:
The War of 1812, where we declared war on Britain in revenge for actions the British had stopped, and where the main plan was to grab Canada for ourselves
The Mexican-American War, where we declared war on Mexico in revenge for the Mexican government trying to suppress insurrections started by American insurgents
The invasion of Grenada
The invasion of Panama
Which is his fault, how? One could easily argue that the deep recession was Clinton’s fault- the last few years of expansion in the '90’s was based mostly on the tech boom which never existed: massive amounts of wealth was created by IPOs into tech companies that never turned profits, but the frenzy over the Internet convinced people to continue mass speculation which kept companies that should have been bankrupt from closing, and so when it all collapsed in late 2000, the recession which should have been mild and starting in 98 was instead severe. Add to this the terrorist attack on 9/11…
Yeah, yeah, I heard that four years ago. It’s all a crap shoot.
Please see Wars, Spanish-American or Mexican-American.
First, Bush has, as far as I can tell, never “agreed” with civil unions. He has stated that the decision whether to recognize civil unions could be left up to the states, but he has consistently spoken out against civil unions, both when he was governor of Texas and as president. Even when announcing his “state’s rights” position, his press secretary made it clear that Bush wouldn’t have supported such legislation. It was not until very recently, in the face of significant backlash against his Constitutional Amendment, that he indicated that, maybe, just maybe, it’s not the end of the world if civil unions were allowed.
“Beyond the gay marriage issue?” You are pretty quick to dismiss the largest issue out there, don’t you think. Bush has supported a Constitutional Amendment to deny gay marriage. Mighty big thing to just ignore, isn’t it? In my world, that alone would suffice for evidence of his anti-gay stance.
But, if you wish a quick list of other positions Bush has taken that evince his bigotry against homosexuals, here:
His appointment of Jerry Thacker, who has characterized AIDS as the “gay plague,” to serve on the Presidential Advisory Commission on HIV and AIDS.
His support for the Texas sodomy law that was struck down in Lawrence v. Texas.
His support for state level Republican platforms that clearly denigrate homosexuals.
His opposition to anti-discrimination laws based on sexual orientation.
His rhetoric surrounding the gay marriage debate.
His appointment to the federal bench of judges, like Bill Pryor and Charles Pickering, who have clearly advocated anti-homosexual viewpoints.
His opposition to hate crime legislation on the basis of sexual orientation.
His opposition to gay adoption.
His opposition to allowing federal benefits to extend to same sex couples.
And, just so you know, I don’t think Bush would have advocated the killing of Matthew Shepard. But thanks for putting words in my mouth. I do, however, think he believes homosexuality is a sin, that homosexuals, in asking for equality, are asking for “special rights”, and that, if enormous pressure had not been brought to bear on him, he would continue to speak out more loudly to energize his Christian fundamentalist political base.
Well, his Faith Based Inititives, in my mind, are a major part of his blurring of the separation of church and state.
In January 2003, the President authorized the Department of Housing and Urban Development to oversee the use of tax dollars to build religious centers where worship occurs, "as long as part of the building is used for social services.
His support of using federal monies to rehab and rebuild places of worship.
Once again, his appointments to the federal bench, including Pryor.
Most recently, he has been seeking from Congress legislation that would make it easier for “religious groups to compete for government grants” and “favor members of their own faith in hiring”
His support of the Pledge Protection Act.
His nigh but constant references to Jesus and God.
His proclamation of “Jesus Day” as governor.
His support for prayer in school.
Hey, look. You misstated my position again. This is so fun…
Conceded. His invasion of Iraq was not the only time the United States was involved in a preemptive war. However, that does absolutely nothing to alleviate my thoughts that Bush has done, and, if elected, will continue to do, idiotic things that will harm this country. And, if not the top, one of the top reasons is the War in Iraq.
It’s impossible to blame the poor economy on one man, even the president of the United States. Some people may argue that it was Bush’s fault, and I agree, in part. However, aside from his idiotic tax cuts, I’ve seen nothing out of him to help the country get through the recession. Under Bush’s administration, the economy has suffered greatly, and he has done nothing to ease my concerns about it. Four more years of his economic plan of giving more tax cuts to the rich, has me seriously worried that the economy will recover.
For the first time I can remember, a presidential election will have a very large impact on the future of this country. Bush has been, and, if given 4 more years, will continue to, harm this nation. I didn’t feel that way 4 years ago during the election, I never felt that way with Clinton/Dole, Bush/Dukakis, or any election I can remember. This one is different.
Reaganomics may have harmed the economy, Clinton’s actions, including “don’t ask, don’t tell” and signing of DOMA were stupid, Carter’s stagflation, and all the other prior elections I’ve seen and read about all had issues. And, even if Bush is re-elected, somehow the country will go on. However, his policies today, and for another four years, have a much greater capacity to, and have already, done harm to America.