To the skinny knacker that asked me for my "Spare Change"

The BBQ Pit
61

Everytime i pass by one of their settlements, usually along the motorway (which, I agree, is no place for anyone to live, but experience has shown us they also do not necessarily leave their camping spots in pristine conditions), I note that the majority of them drive or inhabit mentioned cars/caravans.

I’ve also been told they don’t pay any tax. At all. I don’t know whether this is true or not? Could someone clear that up for me?

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The problem with the camping spots is that there isn’t enough of the facilities available, as every NIMBY makes sure their council won’t allow them, and the ones that do exist aren’t nearly adequate enough to deal with the people who stay there. there is one facility on the outskirts of swords that is kept immaculate, has no trouble with the locals or the police, but they will all be evicted in the next few months because the owner died and his wife hasn’t the ability to manage the site anymore, and the council won’t buy the site from her. Instead, the tenants will me evicted and new houses built on the property.

Few of the existing sites provide skips, and businesses aren’t allowed to provide skips to illegal settlements.

** where do all these stories come from of houses being provided for travellers, and they wrecking them, of camping sites being provided, and they wrecking them or leaving them in appaling states? Are those all biased and untrue? There is a lot of animosity between the residentials and the travellers, and misconceptions of each by the other only spurns on the dislike between them. It’s the way politics are being done, in this country, I think. Politicians needs to be popular in order to get elected. Nobody wants travellers in their backyard, hence the politicians make it undesirable for the travellers to stay in the politican’s constituancy, they are popular, they get elected, and the situation deteriorates. So what do you propose the government do about it? or the people even, for that matter?**

Its a question of who should make the first step. If you were a member of the Travelling community who’s been shit on by local and national government, the media and the public for as long as you can remember, what would you do? **
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i wouldn’t be happy. And i’d be very stubborn, and demand justice. But as I stated above, acting like that, is, in the long run not going to help them. It only reinforces the negative image a lot of people already have of them. Education, education, education.
All three parties.
Look at the Roma in Slovakia. The government there gave them a nature reserve where a limited number of them can live, provided they keep it clean. It seems to work.
I think the nature reserve is called “Slovakian Paradise”. There a few nature reserves in Slovakia.
I think in Romania, they still herd sheep (in the summer) and live in peace with bears and wolves.
So, in your opinion, the government should take the first step.
How, and what?

62

I have noticed an odd change in the nature of begging over the past ten years. I grew up in the Washington DC area and moved back to the city a year ago. Ten years ago there was a clear distinction. You were either a full time panhandler or you weren’t.

Now I have noticed that people will just ask you for a buck in a casual way because they think you look like an easy target. Many of these people live in my neighborhood and appear to have steady jobs. I find it bizarre that they just casually ask for money whenever the mood strikes them. These people would definitely fit into my category of ‘useless wanker’.

63

I’m loathe to ask it, but cite? I haven’t heard of houses that are supplied being trashed. I wouldn’t be naieve enough to assume that every house that is supplied is kept in perfect care, but I would think that it would be the same proportion of settled people who trash council houses to Travellers who do (assuming that these houses do get thrashed).

If you wonder about the bias of papers like the Sunday World, well, every sunday needs a different Bogeyman. Every edition consists of

a) the Latest Criminal Gang from Blanchardstown that want to corrupt your kids and shoot heroin up your grannies arse for a laugh

b) The latest Loyalist drug dealer who’s threatening members of staff of the Sunday World

c) which Strip Club has been shut down during the week because of employing illegal immigrants and doubled as a brothel, complete with multiple “undercover” visits by sunday world reporters. Makes you wonder how they know so much about these clubs.

c) the latest traveller who lives in a big house and hasn’t paid tax.

Its the same shite every week. In the case of A and B and C, there is no need for right of reply, in the case of D, they resort to the same wide stroke techniques. I doubt very much that they would report on settled people who dodge tax unless they were famous.

Agreed.

what should the Irish government do? Ideally, provide funding and stop pandering to the Nimbys. It’s not a catch all solution, but it is a start. In reality that won’t happen.

As for the reserves in Romania for the rom, it can be said that it’s more a case of “out of sight, out of mind”. While providing these sites is a benefit for the rom who want to live there, there is nothing done to educate the public about tolerance of the Rom who stay settled. Proclaiming yourself Roma or of Roma extraction over there is like wearing a big sign saying “Shun Me”. this is the country where a high ranked diplomat once told the joke in front of many foreign dignataries “What do you do with 32 gypsies? Make 8x4 soap.”

64

Good to see you back BTW Els :slight_smile:

65

I would see one of the “professional” DC panhandlers all the time when I was contracting down on K-Street. Every morning a nice car would drop him off in front of the McDonalds. He’d stand right in front of the big HELP WANTED sign and beg for change. Apparently he made more then minimum wage. :dubious:

66

I’ll confess to having a jaundiced view of street beggars. There certainly are people who’ve been forced into this situation, and need and deserve help. Trouble is, there are also chancers and con artists who don’t deserve help, and I can’t necessarily tell the difference.

I used to be long term unemployed, in a genuinely depressed area - one dole giro away from being out on the streets myself, most of the time. But I managed to stay within the system, and ultimately get myself in a job and off the dole. I’m now employed, living in an affluent area with one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. Where I used to live, beggars were an occasional sight … where I live now, I get hit up for spare change anything up to six times between my place and the bus stop. I can’t believe they’re all genuinely deserving cases, unable to find a job or claim social security. Actually, I know damn well they’re not all deserving cases - I found within six months of moving down here that at least one “homeless” guy actually lived in a nicer place than I do.

In the absence of any means of detecting genuine hard-luck cases, I don’t give to street beggars. I’m happy to give to charities that work with the genuine cases, but I’m not going to give to some random person on the street who asks me for money. (No matter how abusive they get. In fact, especially if they get abusive - which some do.)

67

I’ll be brief.

By “provided they keep it clean”, you of course mean, “provided they don’t cut down any trees for firewood to stop them freezing to death in the Winter”. A Paul Polansky quote:

The Romani settlement of Letanovsky Mlyn, located near Slovenský Raj (Slovak Paradise) sounds like a wonderful place to live, what with it now having toilets and everything. It’s a shame that the residents decided they liked being warm and there are now plans to relocate them.

Do they dance by the moonlight with fairies and pixies?

Well, I’m convinced. Slovakia and Romania sound so great, I’ll be moving next week. Must be loads of space for me, what with all those asylum seekers getting out any way they can.

Sarcasm aside; looking to Slovakia and Romania and their policies towards the Roma, in the hope of following their example with regard to the Irish Travellers is not a good idea.

Trust me.

68

Tarantula, regarding the loose change… It’s the euro we have now, our change is literally worthless, don’t let it get to you…unless of course you end up with loads of it.

Regarding ‘Knacker’, I grew up in Ireland to so obviously have come across that word in my time, I never thought of it as being a racial slur. I see your point, but considering that they call themselves that, It doest really bother me. But just for the record, I don’t call them that anyway.

I should also point out that I’m not in Dublin City, so the problems probably not half as bad here.
Oh and TwistOFFate, I don’t have a cite for you but I can tell you what I know, about two miles from where I live there’s a halting site, and its been featured regularly on local news, trust me when I say they do ruin it. I remember one time about 15 years ago, I would have been about six, the travellers decided they wanted to live in the fields across from where we lived and on the greens at the front of the estate, there were several protests and petitions and they were finally moved, you should have seen the state of the place!

Also about 2 years ago, a settled traveller lived across the road from us, they lived there for a few years and when they moved out the corporation had to come along and completely redo the inside of the house. It was filthy and also they had removed walls, and so the place was structurally unsound.

So yea they do ruin things and leave places a mess.

Oh and to the Dublin Dopers, maybe the ones you see singing and stuff up on Grafton Street are hoping for a there big break like that other kid!

69

“They”? How about “some of them”. I’ve known a few settled people to trash their lodgings as well :rolleyes:

70

I remember seeing the panhandlers on the drag down by the university getting into their parents’ Volvos and BMWs. It does happen, boys and girls.

I remember working for the AIDS clinic in the poor part of town for a week – I was temping for their receptionist, or I would’ve been glad to stay longer. In one week I learned just how much aid there is for people with no money and no job. If you’re physically fit, you can go to the day-labor sites and they’ll hire you on to do crap work…but crap work you get paid pretty well for. Don’t even have to speak English. If you don’t have a place to live, especially if you’re trying to get off drugs, they’ll find you one. It won’t be a palace, but it won’t be collapsing either. If you just can’t afford food, there’s a group that will give you over $100 of groceries monthly if you just ask. There is so much public assistance available…but there’s also people who won’t take advantage of it for whatever reason. Lots of 'em don’t want to play by the rules – in public assistance housing you have to be pretty clean about your habits, including no drugs or turning tricks. You have to fill out forms at Caritas, and on Sundays you get to sit through Kern’s sermon before you get lunch and bus passes.

Some folks out there are just down on their luck. A lot more are out there because they have nowhere else they can stay for very long before irritating the hell out of the people on whose suffrance they live. I’ve been desperately poor before, I know how to stretch rice and beans for weeks on end. I know what the unfortunates are going through.

So I give money and support to the groups that can help them out. Anyone who’s too proud to go to Caritas isn’t going to be panhandling.

Oddly enough, the sign I hate above nearly all others is “Please feed the old hippie.” Don’t get me wrong; I’m not going to go into a rant about stupid hippie kids ruining the Fabric of America or somesuch. But all that tells me is that I’m looking at a person who’s made a decision for the past thirty years or so to live off the kindness of people who work for a living. That they’ve never grown or learned or changed. This isn’t someone who’s down on their luck, this is someone who’s self-proclaimed LAZY.
I know someone’s going to call me out for being a hippy hater. I’m going to have to show them my Birkenstocks and the old wooden clogs I’ve been wearing for 100 years. And the broomstick skirts. Doh.

71

You don’t need a “cite”, you just need the gift of “sight”. Just walk through Finglas West any day, anytime. Note the rubbish, the burnt out cars, the bornfires smouldering, the horses grazing on the side of the road. And lest we forget, note all the fucking travellers. Fine they’re not all ignorant trash-scattering arseholes, but a lot of them are…

72

Well, that post certainly makes your earlier apology for the use of the word “knacker” ring rather hollow :rolleyes:

I hope the Mods will show as much toleration for Tarantula’s comments as they would for slurs against any other ethnic group.

73

Yeah, that’s right - jump on the idiotic PC band-wagon. Have you ever walked through Finglas West ??? It doesn’t matter what anyone says - the fact remains that the Travelling community make shit of the sites they stay on.

Also, incase your limited intelligence can’t pick it up, I apologised for the use of the work “knacker” - since someone may have understood it to mean “traveller”. My apology stands. I was not talking about travellers, then - I was talking about “scumbags” hence the apology. If you actually can read, you may have noticed that I used the word “traveller” to mean “traveller”…

Some of these idiots - you give Dubliners a bad name…

74

How ironic.

75

Finglas West, where all the houses are?

76

Yes. There. On the green-spaces that carry caravans. I’m 100% not joking. Check it out and report back. You reckon you will agree with me.

77

Hello Delly,

How many was it built for?

Did the plan it by number of Caravans, or number of people? What amenities were available to it? did it have a toilet block or portaloos? what water facilities were there?

Yes, I agree that resorting to illegally occupying land is the wrong thing to do, but most of the time they have feck all options.

78

From what I know of Finglas West, the settled community aren’t so nice there either. What does that prove?

79

It proves fuck all. Idiots come in all shapes and sizes. If you want to have a go at the “settled community” fire away.

80

I’ve been to Finglas West, I live near enough to it, and I doubt very much that its just the travellers who are burning out cars.

I’m not a member of the PC bandwagon, and I’m certainly not a bleeding heart, but it’s fecking obvious that there isn’t adequate facilities available to deal with the Travelling community.

what would you suggest should happen?

travellers have their good and bad people, just like every other slice of the population. Do you prefer to only focus on the bad aspects of the travellers as fuel for your self-righteousness? what about the Travelling community in Tuam that has just had one of its member elected Mayor?
I don’t pretend to have all the answers, but simply going on about how bad travellers are isn’t going to do anything to rectify the problems.