To the SOB that seduced my 14 Y/O niece

The BBQ Pit
61

All this is really very nice, but it has no bearing on your original statement that NO 14 year old is capable of dealing with pregnancy, etc… Clearly this is false. Rein in the hyperbole next time.

pencilpusher,

I had sex at 14. Was I RAPED or MOLESTED then? I knew exactly what I was doing, FTR. Your insistance that the wishes of the girls parents should be ignored, that some ADULT should RIGHT THIS MINUTE report this MOLESTATION etc… sickens me. How about “mind your own business”, huh? I am not making a blanket statement, BTW, but in this case where a parent is aware of the situation and involved in determining the consequences for the girl, you really should let them handle it. It’s none of your affair.

62

This is true, its NOT MY affair. I DO however know what it’s like being a mother at the age of 15. I also know that the number of children in foster care DUE TO THIS SAME SITUATION is alarming and needs to be STOPPED. I MAKE it my business where CHILDREN are concerned and YOUR LACK of caring sickens ME. You had sex at 14… SO FUCKING WHAT. So did I but that DOESN’T MAKE IT ACCEPTABLE. I hope your children never have the problems associated with STD and unplanned pregnancies. (better yet we can ALWAYS hope YOU haven’t bred yet…)

63

So sorry, already got one and there’s one on the way. Now in SPITE of all your STUPID capitol LETTERS, your post makes no sense. The girl’s mother is involved. For you to believe that you or, God forbid, the state knows better how to raise someone else’s child is abhorant to me. ( absent abuse, univolved parents, yadda, yadda, yadda. ) I’m sorry you had a kid at 15, but I wonder, was your mommy involved in your life, in educating you about sex and the consiquences, etc… or did she just leave you on your own to fuck to your heart’s content? If the latter, perhaps the authorities should have been called. If the former, by your logic it makes no difference, the authorities should be call irreguardless, and damn the family involved. I’m tired of people looking for the government to take care of them, take ownership of your actions for fucks sake, and show some responsibility for yourself.

64

Another vote to let Mom handle this. While it’s easy to point the finger at the young man involved, you just don’t know what went on. Even if she was seduced, she still made some pretty crappy choices.

I had a high school friend who was convicted of statutory rape. The girl was 13 or 14, but (according to him) told him she was 18. She was in a bar where the minimum age to get in was 18 and she had a fake driver’s license that listed her age as 18. She definitely looked and dressed older than she was. The judge said it didn’t matter. He didn’t have to serve any jail time but he was arrested, tried, and put on probation for a few years. Luckily for him, this was well before the days of Megan’s Laws where he would have been registered as a convicted sex offender. While he obviously screwed up by not knowing her better before having intercourse, I’d say he paid a pretty hefty price while she got off scot free.

So unless you KNOW that he deliberately went out to seduce a kid, I’d leave it alone. He may not be as guilty as you think and she may not be as innocent as you think.

65

Excellent post TeaElle. Absolutely brilliant. I hope that anyone who doubts that it’s a big deal for teenagers IN OUR SOCIETY, TODAY, to become pregnant reads it carefully.

Weirddave, it was hardly meant to be hyperbole which, strangely, I’m also sure you’re quite well aware of. Perhaps I should have said “so few (as to be neglible, doubtless) 14 y.o.'s IN OUR SOCIETY, TODAY, blah blah, etc.” However, since the discussion, shockingly, is actually about a 14 y.o. living in North America, today, I was under the impression that you were aware of that and that’s what I thought I was addressing in my response to you.

You knew quite fucking well what I was saying. Unfortunately, your nitpicking over semantics in no way adds to the validity of your statements either. Rein in the assholishness next time.

66

Sample,
Were your mothers emotional scars from being a parent at a young age, or from the treatment she got from the rest of the family? I had a friend whos parents wigged out when the found out she was having sex with her 18 year old boyfriend when she was 15. Her parents even knew they were dating. (They had even encouraged the dating.) They just couldn’t handle the thought of her being a sexual person. They over reacted big time and ended up driving him away. And scarred her for life. They stopped being supportive of her in her endevours and though they did not kick her out of the house, she had to fend for herself with college and her future. She still to this day (30 years later) have not forgiven them for their actions. From personal knowledge of her I know she is still has major issues. If they had been supportive and talked rationaly with her, things would have been much better for her. (And her beau) They (her and her guy) would probably have gotten married after they had finished college. They were both in the ame field and had much in common. They are still great friends, but the window of opportunity had closed because the parents had driven them apart.

67

Yeah, you are right. the social safety net in the USA is non existent. That does suck. However, just because you dont have a cure for cancer doesnt mean cancer doesnt exist. In other words (before you tell me I am getting off topic by not understanding what I mean), the lack of safety net in and of itself does not justify sending this boy to prison for liking sex consentually with someone else that also likes sex. The lack of safety net only means that perhaps your system is failing your people, not that everyone is failing your system.

I like the logic though. Get the courts to put this guy in prison for what was a consentual relationship. Government might not educate, or provide proper health care, so instead you will fight social ignorance with more social ignorance by throwing him in jail because you are too scared to say “penis” in a highschool textbook.

Guess what… sex feels really good. And not just to adults. Teens are going to fuck. Adults are going to fuck. If you do not want your kids having sex, then EDUCATE THEM of all of the potential pitfalls, and also EXPLAIN WHY THEY OUTWEIGH THE BENEFITS. Do it openly, honestly, and without being so fucking scared that if your kids hear the word pussy all they are going to think of is running off to get some.

It fucking blows my mind that people are so damn scared to acknowledge that sex exists, and that anyone who shows any interest in it at a young age is too young to know better, not able to handle the responsibility, and must be abused by anytone an arbitrary age older than them. but only if the younger person in question is female. It is bullshit. Teenagers are aware of decisions they make. our responsibility is to help them get educated enough so that when the decision comes, it is not out of ignorance.

Though hell, what a great philosophy to deny that something exists, then rather than educate, you punish and ruin lives over a puritan moral viewpoint that ultimately harms millions of teens in your country every year rather then helping them become informed to make proper choices.

“sex is bad” does not inform. It patronizes. Give kids some fucking benefit of the doubt for having a brain in their heads. Their bodies are mature enough to handle procreation. Dont you think it is entirely possible that their minds are able to be taught openly and with understanding as well?

Of course, telling a lot of Americans that prison isn’t the answer to every problem is pretty much a moot point. Let’s keep our eyes closed, deny a problem exists, and then when a case or two shows up that doesnt agree with our ignorance, we’ll take the easy way out and lock them out of our pure innocent happy little world.

Fuck that. Give these kids some fucking credit and get your head out of your ass.

68

So the mom’s to suffer criminal charges and the niece goes to foster care?
Forgive me if I don’t see this as a situation that’d be obviously better for the niece.

69

I lost my virginity at 13. Was I raped? Was I “molested”? You be the judge. Here are the facts.

My boyfriend had just turned 16 that day, and he wanted a “special” birthday present. I said “No, I’m not ready for that.” He continued to plead, and beg, and would not relent. Finally he began kissing me, still pleading. I eventually relented, and lost my virginity in his parent’s backyard under the full moon. Romantic? Hardly. It was borderline rape, because I said “No” and continued to say “No” for about 2 hours, but he wouldn’t accept that as an answer, and finally pressured me into it. Yes, I felt pressured and resentful even then. No, I don’t know exactly why I didn’t go home after he continued. I chalk it up to being unsure of myself, and not knowing how to assert myself, and basically being young and inexperienced. *****

The point I’m making is this, SOME (not all) young girls really are pressured and manipulated by older guys into “consenting” to sex. Either by wearing them down, until the conquest is made, or by “grooming” them, and “seducing” them.

Sometimes, the girl wants to seem “cool” and “with it”, and keep up with her peer’s apparent behavior (Yes, even when I was in school, the girls were bragging about their exploits in the locker room, it would be enough to put a permanent blush on many a guy’s face.)and so will find a guy they can pursue to have sex with, so they stay “cool”. It doesn’t mean that a guy over the age of 18 (or whatever laws apply) should be allowed to have sex with her.

It’s against the law, and they know better. A man who cheats on his wife is not allowed the excuse “But she threw herself at me, and I couldn’t resist!” By the same token, a 21 year old shouldn’t be allowed the “out” of saying “But she threw herself at me, and I got turned on and couldn’t say no!” That’s bullshit, if the guy knowingly has sex with an underage girl, then he should pay the penalty for his lack of self discipline. (Notice, I allow for a bit of room if it can be proved the girl lied about her age. Still, if the girl gets pregnant by the guy, he should still have to pay support.)

You might see if you are indeed obligated to report this. There are states that REQUIRE that adults with such knowledge report the incident. The girl needs to be checked out for STD’s, and gotten to counseling. If she’s pregnant, than she needs to be taken for pre-natal care as well. Pregnancy is risky, especiallly for a young girl. I believe, IIRC, that young girls miscarry more often, and have more difficulties in labor. She’ll need those vitamins to keep herself healthy later on in life too.

***** I’ve also been used by a guy over a decade older than me, when I was a young teen. That time, I thought he was older, more mature, not pre-occupied with sex (Ha!) and would treat me well. Looking back, I can see how he “groomed” me, caused a rift between my mother and I, and my friends and I, and basically used me to get his own jollies. He knew I didn’t know how to ask for what I wanted, because I was pretty virginal. He basically manipulated me to make me his “sex doll”. I was very much used. It’s part of what set me up for my later abusive marriage, which I was lucky to escape alive from.

On preview, SimonX the mom can get into trouble, and the teenage daughter taken away, if the mom DOESN’T report it. I don’t think the mom will get into trouble if she does report it. Hope that clears things up a bit for you.

70

CuriousCanuck, I don’t see anyone saying not to educate their children. In fact, I believe the first thing I said was parents should educate their daughters. I also said it doesn’t happen as often as it should.
It must be nice to live in your idealistic little world and tell us all how things *ought * to be.
So you had sex young and it was good. Yippee for you!! Are you female? Are you conversant with the stigma that goes along with being sexually active at a young age? Were you called a slut? Were you shunned socially? Hm. I believe the answer to all of those questions are “no.” Believe it or not, becoming sexually active for young men is a different scenario than becoming sexually active for young women.
I will say it once again, slowly and with small words. Girls think sex=love. They do. Yep. Blanket statement. Deal with it. They are not able to separate the two. At the age of 14, they are not consensual adults. NOT. Not emotionally, not intellectually. Physically? Yes, possibly. But it sounds to me like you’re identifying with this 21yo kid and thinking “Hey, I’m not such a bad guy! Therefore, he must not be either!”
Yes, I agree, sending this boy to jail for a very long time is a serious decision. But that doesn’t mean it’s not appropriate in some cases.
I also agree that this country is fucked in the head when it comes to sex. But saying “eh, no big deal” is not always the case. Some people mature more quickly than others. And it sounds like this young girl is not one of them. “I’ll starve my baby to have an abortion!” ?? Oh, yes, sounds not melodramatic at all. Very adult. :rolleyes:

71

Did you reead my post at all? I understnad there were naughty words in it, but I think the point was fairly clear. You are right in the fact though that I am not female. Other than that, pretty much everything else that you mentioned was a pile of crap.

But of course, I guess there is no point in arguing with you since your blanket statement obviously has more power than “nyah nyah, I called it first!”

72

I totally agree with you that the girl concerned was raped. However, as far as I can see there are two sets of potentially conflicting interests that must be considered here. There is the interest of society and the state in ensuring that this individual is stopped and never rapes again. And the evidence suggests that it is likely that if unconfronted, he will do the same thing in the future (see Robin Warshaw, I Never Called it Rape, detailing the results of the Ms Magazine survey into acquaintance rape showing the likelihood of repeat offenses).

On the other hand, there is also the interests of the child to consider. Many women report a second rape, at the hands of the justice system. Women are disbelieved throughout the process of reporting and prosecution, and are subjected to different evidentiary standards in cases of rape than are present in other crimes. The process of prosecuting a rapist is a daunting one for any woman, and while some of the problems are dealt with statutarily in cases of statutory rape, with consent not being in issue (preventing him using a defense that she agreed to the sex), the effects on a 14 year old are tough to measure accurately.

This isn’t to say that reporting the incident isn’t the best way to go. Just merely to suggest that there are arguments that flow both ways. The mother may genuinely believe that the best way she can protect her daughter is by avoiding a trial.

73

CuriousCanuck You have some valid points about educating kids about sex. Yes, teens are going to have sex. Yes, they will enjoy it. I have no problem with this concept, as long as the relationship is balanced, and one person isn’t using the other. I have a problem with ANYONE who “plays” their lovers, no matter the age difference or gender of the partners, and I know it can happen many different ways.

Not much can be done if they are both “of legal age” and one uses the other. (As long as it’s not “conning” them out of money etc.) What I do have a problem with, is if one of the partners (of any gender of sexual preference) is not of legal age, and is taken advantage of. I know from experience that this can really mess up the one who’s “been took” emotionally, and it sets them up for future abusive relationships.

That is a problem, because it can cause more waves for society in general further down the line. Children of abusive marriages suffer greatly, court costs for prosecuting the abuser, costs for counseling for the battered spouse and children etc. These costs are often picked up by everyone here in the U.S.

What do you propose the U.S., with the culture it has, do to purge all the predators (and sadly, they do exist) who aren’t “honorable” in their intentions? That’s part of the problem. Somehow, the predators have multiplied, and thrived in this culture. I’m not saying every older person in a relationship like that is a predator, because they aren’t. However, they may very well be lawbreakers. As with any action, if you knowingly break a law, and get caught, don’t be suprised if you have to pay the consequences.

74

No, actually, my post is backed by experience and observation. I worked in a non profit women’s clinic for a year or so. Amazing how many 15yo’s I saw, sitting there crying saying “But he said he LOVED ME!!!” Something tells me you haven’t seen that side of it. Or had to deal with the consequences. Or done any counselling of those kids.
I’m sorry if I’m coming off condescending. Truly I don’t mean to. But I’ve seen way too much to stay idealistic about this.
Yes, education is absolutely the answer (gee that’s only the THIRD time I’ve said it). But until such time as EVERYONE has access to that education, and there is no stigma, there will continue to be problems.

75

OK, we AGREE on education. But to throw people in jail to correct a flaw in the societal support system is not a good solution, even as a stop-gap measure. As far as what you dealt with in the crisis centre, I am truly sorry for all those that had to deal with that. However, translating that into blaket statements is also irresponsible.

76

[QUOTE=Craneop2]
She also stated that if she was that she would cause an abortion by starving the baby to death. So much for making adult decisions!/QUOTE]

Thats the sort of desperate and dangerous decisions you get when somebody else makes decisions for you. Should this girl get pregnant, she will not have the soverignty over her own body to decide to abort or not- instead, her mother gets to decide. Don’t you think you’d react poorly if very important decisions about your body and how you are going to spend the next eighteen years were uncermoniously handed over to your mother?

77

Two things.

First, because this is a generalization, it is incorrect.

Secondly, if we (society) stopped beating girls over their heads with the notion that they are ‘unable’ to separate sex from love and will be horribly scarred if they have sex with someone who does not love them, maybe we (society) can stop fucking them over. Time to kill the self-fulfilling prophecy.

78

This teenage girl actively and aggressively pursues a relationship with this moron, lies to her mother, and goes sneaking out into the night so she can bang this slacker in a motor home on the sly, and you contend she was “raped” by this predator, and then begin a worried discourse on how the justice system might “rape” her yet again if she files suit.

While it might well be “statutory rape”, I have a hard time thinking of the 21 year old in this situation as predatory rapist just waiting to strike again. “Irresponsible moron” might well describe him, but unless we infantilize the 14 year old girl back into a diaper, condsidering him to be an actual predatory rapist borders on hysteria.

79

Hate to break it to ya, but she was dead on correct. One of the reasons I was able to be pressured into having sex so young was because I was “in love”, and he said “If you love me, you will do this.”. I thought it was part of love, even though I was resentful. I’d have done that with him EVENTUALLY, if we stayed together, because I was in love. The point is, I wasn’t ready AT THAT TIME, and he pressured me into it. I know now, that it wasn’t love, it was me being in love with the idea of being in love, so to speak.

I’ll say it again, female speaking up. Many women/pre-pubescent girls/teens think sex=love. It’s part of how we are taught, through obsevation (and often misinterpreting) of other older female’s behavior, and an incomplete understanding of the world. There are SOME females who take the “sex is sex, and I want to get fucked” mentality, but they aren’t the “norm”.

If a female has sex with a guy that they are in any kind of “relationship” with, than she thinks it’s because they are both in love, and this is one of many ways they are showing it. That’s if she’s mature and healthy. Young women though, often think that sex = love, period. If you have sex with them, then it must be “love”. This is why being used sexually messes young women up so badly. It’s a betrayal of trust, and takes a long time to heal. This edition from the webcomic Queen of Wands is a perfect illustration of what I mean.

It’s not correct, but it’s true. It’s something many females can grow out of, but young, inexperienced females have this illusion. Some hold on to it longer than others. It’s almost ingrained into the culture. Yes, it needs to be removed, and girls should be taught better. That doesn’t mean all girls are. Many aren’t.

80

Yes, I say she was raped, because the law says she was raped (probably, don’t know the state she is in). And the evidence suggests that acquaintance rapists do repeat offend, primarily because they often do not recognize what they are doing is rape. While statutory rape cases are somewhat different in nature, I would assert they are more analagous to acquaintance rapes than to stranger (or simple) rapes. And the damage to the victim, while different to violent stranger rapes, is not lesser from acquaintance rapes. I accept the damage by statutory rape is different, but our legislatures have seen fit to criminalize it, and for, I believe, pretty good reasons that have been well set out in this thread.