Depends on the cause and situation, of course, but are you the type of person who would die for certain beliefs or would you go along with something to be pragmatic if need be?
i.e,. say you oppose Trump, but an employer demands that you wear apparel or do something that endorses Trump, or something anti-gay, or you will lose your job if you don’t comply. Or perhaps an even more literal “convert to Islam or die” situation like ISIS to those it conquered in its heyday - or a more subtle, “You can refuse to endorse this popular-but-wrong political stance, but doing so will cost you the election” - how far would you go?
Well, in the situation of violent conquest, (as implied by your ISIS type scenario) they’re going to kill me anyway because I’m going to be one of the ones fighting back.
When religion becomes government, yeah kill me
I’d rather lose the election
If my employer was dumb enough to do that blatantly, I don’t want to work there, regardless of the politics, and in fact would document the incident and report them to the labor board.
Back in the '80s, I worked for an ad agency in NYC, and was given the “Robertson for President” account. Pat Robertson was virulently homophobic, among other things. Refusing to work on an account was unheard of, but I refused and threatened to quit. They knew I was serious. After some negotiations, the account was given to someone else.
I guess religiously and that would be about it although I reserve the right to rethink this answer in the future. Does anything else really even matter? I mean if Trump becomes dictator of all craziness and we have to wear MAGA hats, what does it matter? He’s going to be dead in a decade or two at most and I’ve got maybe 40 years left. Life is short and made up of suffering. The things that we think are extremely important typically matter very little in the grand scheme of things. Who are the martyrs who died for their causes 200 years ago? We might know a few, but history is littered with the bodies of people making useless stands. Death comes for us all and if you’re in a hurry to hasten it, good on you, but you’ll be too dead to enjoy the fruits of your martyrdom, so why bother?
One I’ve thought of, was the lengths I’d go to if my employer required me to take a whizz quiz. Haven’t done any drug or even drank ETOH or smoked a cigarette in 15+ years, but feel VERY strongly about privacy.
Hell, I suspect I’d pee in the cup and just gripe about it.
Not sure what I would be willing to die for (other than immediate threat to my immediate family members).
I’m over 60, have no kids, been married to the same person for more than 40 years, got a bad heart and some other health issues ---------- go ahead and kill me. It isn’t like I have all that much to lose at this point. I’m not anxious to die for anything or anyone but I am close enough to the grave not to be terribly afraid of it compared to living a little longer but badly and/or ashamed of myself.
I’d need more details. In order for me to not die for the cause, what must I do or refrain from doing? Is it just me making a principled stand that no one but me will even know about, and which has no effect on anything? Or, at the other extreme, can my principled stand save some people or bring an important issue out into public awareness or stop the Evil Oppressors in their tracks, thwarting them because I’ve refused to stand down? Or somewhere in between those extremes?
I’m an extremely stubborn person addicted to abstract principles and whatnot. I’ll tend to do things that are self-destructive on a pragmatic level for the sake of those abstract principles. But if the pragmatic-loss stakes are high, I’m going to want the stakes on the other side to be high too.
The value of martyrdom is that it makes an idea or cause live forever. Now, if I could get the kind of results Jesus did when he was martyred on the Cross, it would surely be worth it.
Unless you’re going to get high value from the deed, your better off lying, staying alive, and remaining viable as a revolutionary force when the moment is right.
“He who turns and runs away, lives to fight another day.”
As they say,* It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees.*
While there is certainly room to compromise over many things, other issues are important enough to take a stand on. I suppose if you literally held a gun to my head, I’d cave and wear a Klan hood or a MAGA hat for as long as you made me do it. But I would quit any job that made me do something like show support for Trump, take a drug test, or work against my world view.
As an example, I refused to register for Selective Service in 1980 (or whenever it kicked in) I had zero concern that I’d actually be drafted, but I thought a draft was immoral and that steps in that direction should be opposed. I knew I was committing a felony that could screw up my career, but I figured that’s the price one pays for taking a stand. I suppose I could have taken a larger stand and walked in to their office and turned myself in, but I was content with private resistance.
Years ago I walked away from a job when I was told that due to a contract with the city I had to be drug tested. It turned out that I was an important enough employee for them to fudge the data.
IIRC, there are only a few states (such as California) that protect employees from political discrimination, and even then, it’s not really enforced hard, and so yes, employers can compel employees to do political things. (Hope some lawyer Doper comes in to step in on this if I’m wrong)
Do you enjoy any benefits today as the result of someone having been willing to die for a cause in the past? If you could send a message back in time to them, would it be “Don’t bother?”
If it was for personal comfort level, I’m reminded of a catch-phrase of an old professor of mine–“bad breath is better than no breath.” I’d rather be Red than dead.
But, the thing is… I can’t. Dude is dead. I have no obligation to some person 200 years from now who may or may not benefit from some action I take now. I also end up with existential dread. I don’t know the results of my actions, perhaps my martyrdom inspires thousands to take up arms and martyr themselves and a bunch of innocents along the way.
I don’t even really know why I should feel gratitude toward this martyr. His martyrdom may have made the current world better, but maybe it made it worse and I am only assuming that it’s better. Franz Ferdinand’s death may have led to a peaceful modern Europe today. OR we may have gotten here anyway and saved ourselves millions of lives in the process. Being grateful for his sacrifice seems foolish (not that he had a choice in the matter, but pretending that he did.)
I once went to a political rally, believing very strongly that the thing could result in violence and that I might very well leave it either in cuffs or on a stretcher. As it turned out, the whole thing stayed peaceful and I left freely and on my own two feet when it was done.
There are a few causes for which I would risk arrest/fisticuffs with a hater. As to whether or not I would stake my life on any of those causes, that’s difficult to say. If Americans do again start shooting at each other over this or that, I intend to mind my own business up until a gun is pointed at me. In that situation, I will try to shoot first, or go down in flames.
I can tell you that I don’t give a damn about religion. If this Muslim takeover of the US that conservatives are so afraid of ever happens, and a sword is put to my throat and I’m told to convert to Islam, recite the Shahadah I shall. It’s not like there’s a “but does he really believe it” test.
I’m not confident in my courage. I’d probably break at the first threat of bodily harm and tearfully promise to murder and eat my parents, or pretend theism, or wear a maga hat, or whatever equivalent thing was demanded of me.
I think begbert2 is onto something. Right now, sitting in a comfortable chair, warm, recently-fed, not under any duress, I have no trouble hypothesizing that there are a number of things worth dying over. Faced with the actual decision, when someone has a chainsaw to my neck, or I’ve been starving for weeks and am offered food in order to violate my principles, it’s a lot harder to know how one would react.
Hypothetical scenario that probably happens in real life: Suppose you are gay, and accused of being gay in a nation where homosexuality is illegal. During trial, would you deny being gay (and possibly save your skin,) or would you proudly affirm in court, “Yes, I am gay, there’s*** nothing wrong*** with being gay?”