From this thread, I have developed interest in this question:
Leaving aside the lives and well-being of your loved ones, what would you be willing to risk your life for? To give up your life for?
Would you join the military to defend your country from the grave threat of conquest (again, leaving aside your desire to defend your loved ones)?
Would you join a rebellion against a corrupt and dictatorial government, in order to bring about freedom in your country?
Would you stand up to gangsters taking over your city or neighborhood to keep it a decent place to live?
Would you donate a kidney to a stranger, even though you might need it yourself later?
All of these actions pose considerable risk. That risk would be balanced against some value, a value that you place at least potentially higher than your own life.
So the questions are:
Are there such values for you?
What are they?
I’ll start: I think I’d be more likely to do one of the first three, which I guess means that
Yes there are, and
Preserving or achieving the maximum amount of freedom is a value worth dying for (since living without freedom is not something I want to do).
On the other hand, I would be unlikely to do the fourth, since I don’t consider charity a major virtue.
How about you? Make up your own examples of actions you would or would not take at the risk of your life.
I think there are few things for which I’d willingly sacrifice my life. If there were some type of draft or something maybe I would if I was feeling especially suicidal but not for any altruisitc reasons.
Skald if you don’t mind me asking, How did your son die?
Once upon a time I voluntarily enlisted in the military and pulled my four-year hitch. Does that mean I’d willingly die for my country? I’m not so sure.
Military, gangsters, rebellion… Fighting for or against such things doesn’t necessarily mean you’re willing to die to win. When the shit hits the fan everybody thinks those bullets all have the other guy’s name on them, you never think it’s gonna’ be your name.
See, you never really make a conscious decision that you are giving your life for [fill in blank]. You’re just fighting for it. Other guys might die, but you’re always thinkin’, “It ain’t gonna’ be me”. If people thought it actually WAS going to be them, lots fewer would fight.
The first thing that comes to my mind is history - the perpetuation of information from the past. I’d die to save an important archaeological site or manuscript.
Would you join the military to defend your country from the grave threat of conquest (again, leaving aside your desire to defend your loved ones)?
No.
Would you join a rebellion against a corrupt and dictatorial government, in order to bring about freedom in your country?
No, although I might lead a rebellion so as to become the new dictator myself.
Would you stand up to gangsters taking over your city or neighborhood to keep it a decent place to live?
Depends on what constitutes “taking over”. If they expect me to pay some kind of Mafia-style “tribute”, then I’d do something about it. If it’s just a matter of more overall crime and drugs… well I already live in south central L.A.
Would you donate a kidney to a stranger, even though you might need it yourself later?
I wouldn’t join the military or a rebellion because it might involve me having to kill someone. Peaceful resistance against gangsters maybe, but probably not. I would consider donating an organ to someone else, although contradictorially I am not an organ donor.
I think I would fight to keep my freedom of speech and religion (well, to keep it for everyone). If there was a serious threat that the entire world would be taken over by one faction and that would end up in the loss of freedom of religion or speech EVERYWHERE (ergo, I couldn’t just move)…yeah I would rather die than have to live like that.
A lot of people have replied that they would, say, fight in a war to preserve freedom. That is, however, not the same as agreeing to die, as John Carter points out. Agreeing to some more risk is not the same as agreeing to the certainty of death.
Human nature being what it is I doubt many people, given a chance to think about, will willingly die in return for anything except the lives of their kids (and some won’t even die for that.) There are exceptions of course.
I did three years in the military; it was peacetime (mid-1970s) but I was willing to fight and die under the U.S. flag. Still am, but I have to see a real threat to the ol’ homeland.
I guess if the U.S. Army showed up on my doorstep and said they were occupying my house and property to put down a posse comitatus rebellion over in the next county (and that’s not as far-fetched as you might think – we have some real wingnuts out here on the Great Plains) I guess I’d put the wife and dogs in the truck and go join the wingnut rebellion.
When the U.S. military is used to deny civil rights to me and my neighbors, I guess that’s when I become an American insurgent. Because I honest-to-god do not want to live in a country where the military are used to nullify the Bill of Rights.
I served time in the Marines (infantry) and have been to war, so I would definitely put my life on the line. But once you are in the Marines, you tend to not fight for your country, but for your fellow Marine.
As far as joining a rebellion against a corrupt and dictatorial government, yes I would, as I believe it means defending the spine of our country, the constitution.
Stand up to gangsters in my neighborhood? Since you specifically stated that what I would be willing to die for has nothing to do with my family, the answer is no. I would move.
Yes, I would donate a kidney to a stranger. What comes around, goes around.
As far as values, in the earlier years in my life (looking back) I messed up the lives of a lot of people and have almost started a thread about it somewhere on this board, but did not want to be judged nor let me identity be known. Sometimes this haunts me as I drive my car in the morning, out of nowhere, sometimes as I lay in bed trying to fall asleep. Since that time I feel I have great values and will do whatever is possible (without risk to my family) to help anyone in need, no matter the risk. NOW, thinking about it, if I let myself die or put myself in such a severe situation, aren’t I hurting my family? This is the only thing that could possibly stop me. On the other hand, at least my family can have SOME sort of pride knowing that I did what was right.
These are excellent points. Thank you and everyone for the thoughtful responses.
I realize that I forgot to ask the one question that came to my mind from the other thread:
Would you commit murder in order to steal supplies that you and your loved ones need to survive? Assume some major disaster, and that the choice truly is committing this murder or allowing yourself and your loved ones to die.
In other words, would you be willing to die rather than to commit such a crime? If so, (and this is the important part to me) why?
Interesting responses from all. Since it was something I posted in the other thread that kicked off this one, I’ll try to give some answers. John Carter has made some excellent points about giving vs increased risk. To the original questions, my answers would be Yes, yes, no, no. For the follow-up question, my answer was stated in the other thread: Yes, I would kill to insure the survival of my wife. It would be at the end of a long list of options, but come crunch time, the other guy loses.
In different situations, I believe I would act to save another’s life while endangering my own. I decided years ago that I would try to take a bullet for one of my students if necessary. In other words, gunman throws open door and opens fire, I place my body in front of a student’s to take the hit. I’d rather heave a desk at the gunman, but I may not have an option.
Looking over some of the other answers…I wouldn’t die to save a “thing.” Throw myself on a grenade to save the Constitution…nah. It’s a piece of parchment. The ideas and ideals will live on even if the document is destroyed. Ditto any other historical object.
I’m just funning you. I’m glad you opened this thread and asked this question. I’m honestly curious to see if **Silenus ** and I are as different as you think we are. Maybe we are, but I honestly don’t think so.
I’m glad you opened this thread and asked this question. I’m honestly curious to see if **Silenus ** and I are as different as you think we are. Maybe we are, but I honestly don’t think so.