And you say what crap to me, did you even read your own post, ‘No one is forced to breathe the air’ - what do you think we are solar powered robots or something!?!? Hey news flash us humans are required to breath this air - when ‘this air’ refers to the air around us.
For public places I stand by what I say, the right to smoke with others around is the right to infringe on the rights of others. As for your business owner aspect, since when does a business owner have unrestricted freedom from government regulation?
Also I would go as far as smokers should pay for damage that their smoke caused, including additional washing of clothes of people around him/her. I flat fee of a dollar per person should be fine IMHO.
I was specifically referring to the air inside another person’s establishment.
Again, these places are not “public” in the sense that they are owned by the public. They are owned by someone, and that person should be able to say whether or not someone is able to smoke within them. If someone doesn’t want to encounter the smoke, he or she can stay outside.
Since when did I say that they should be free from all government regulation? I am an advocate that if someone chooses to open a business, he or she should be pretty much free to run it as long as he or she sees fit. As long as no one is being forced to do anything, then let’s let the business owner and the customers figure out what should go on within the business.
Again, no one forced you to fraternize with people who smoke. If you want to avoid the smell, stay away from smokers.
I’m a smoker, living in Ohio and I voted for the ban (the one that passed - there were two on the ballot).
Why? Well, when I go out with people I’m usually with people who don’t smoke, so I sit in non smoking sections anyway. It really won’t affect me - and I do know people who are allergic to cigarette smoke, so it’s better for them.
I voted against the other one (which was less restrictive - it allowed places that cater to people 18 or older to remain as smoking places) because it was on there as a constitutional amendment. And to me, this is an issue that does not belong in the state constitution - a constitution is about defining and protecting the rights of the citizens, and I don’t see smoking as a right.
So you contradict yourself once more, ‘pretty much free’ why didn’t you add ‘as long as it’s legal’ or ‘as long as it is not prohibited’.
Again you are suggesting that I move instead of the offender - this s a land of laws - laws to perserve the rights of the people. Smoking is not a right, it is a infringement on other’s rights, and has to be addressed as such.
Peanuts! I’m so sick of always wondering whether my soft serve has fraternized with a murderous peanut prior to being shoved at me through a small window at the Dairy Queen drive through.
I mean, PEANUTS KILL PEOPLE! One little sign on the drive through window isn’t enough to keep us safe from ourselves. What if I’m allergic to peanuts and want to work at a restaurant that serves them? It’s ridiculous to assume that I should in any way inconvenience myself just because I have an allergy to the little bastards! And besides, we should really get peanut butter away from fat people before it kills them. JIF and Peter Pan won’t be able to shill their toxin in MY state anymore. spit spit
We’re just doing our part to keep America safe, right? I mean… <john mellencamp> THIS IS OURRR COUNTRY! </john mellencamp> :smack:
The “offender” is doing nothing wrong so long as he is complying with the rules of the property owner. It’s the owners bar/bowling alley/restaurant, if he wants to allow smokers, that is his right. If you do not want to be around smoking, do not patronize his bar/bowling alley/restaurant.
Cars are also legal; that doesn’t mean you get to drive on the sidewalk.
The people who work there are. And no they can’t “just get another job”, unless you propose to pay them money equal to their wages while they search for one. Life is not some Utopia where anyone who needs a job can instantly get one as good or better than the old one.
Prove it. Most people I know who hate smoking care nothing about other people’s health, or what they eat or drink. They just want to get rid of that damned choking smelly smoke.
Or, because they are ordered to say so, on pain of being fired.
And such sheer callousness and/or malice is the hallmark of the conservative/libertarian position. Employee’s lives and health have just as much value as that of a business owner, and far more value than a business, which is just a thing, not a person.
Which is ridiculous, although an amusing image. It also goes against all that “oooh, think of the poor business” rhetoric, unless you think being served soley by Darth Vader imitations will attract smoking customers. Unless they’re rabid Warsies, of course.
Well if it is made illegal then the offender *is *doing something wrong. You not only have to obey the rules of the owner but the laws of the nation, and guess which one goes away where their is a conflict. A property owner does not have the absolute right to allow anything that he wishes, and these restrictions are moreso if he has a business open to the public.
Because it’s the smokers who are the aggressors. I look at smoking around others as about as bad as shooting a gun into the air, and hoping no one gets hit by the falling bullet. Should shooting into the air be allowed, as long as everyone is issued steel umbrellas ? You keep trying to impose all the burdens on the victims.
Unless someone invented Anti-Smoke Force Shields when I wasn’t looking, no you can’t, short of heavily restricting where people smoke - like with laws like this.
See that’s the problem. You look at it like that, when in reality it’s more like you running onto a firing range and demanding the shooters to hold their fire. You choose to go to bars. If you don’t want to be exposed to smoke, don’t go to bars. You have no right to dictate how a business owner runs his private property just because you are too stupid to avoid the smoke you consider so deadly.
Bullocks. You can avoid smokers in bars/bowling alleys/restaurants by not going to said establishments.
And I can avoid falling bullets by staying indoors all the time. That doesn’t make firing guns into the air acceptable. The people who endanger others are the ones who bear the responsibility.
Again for the dense amongst us, you can avoid smoke by not patronizing establishments that allow smoking. There are no smokers running around blowing smoke in anyone’s face.
That is false. There are plenty of such smokers here doing that very thing. There were plenty doing it when I lived in Japan in the early 1990s and plenty of smokers doing it also in California before the ban. When I visited Reno, NV in 2004, there were plenty of smokers blowing smoke into others faces without so much as a “by your leave.”
This thread came to mind while I was driving home last night.
I travel along a two-way narrowish two-lane road through a mixed business and residential area, where someone has just opened up a small body shop.
He is into advertising in a big way. A trailer with painted slogans is parked just off the street, a helium balloon is tethered above the business, and for the piece de resistance - he decided it would attract lots of attention if he placed flashing white strobe lights at night pointed outward directly into oncoming traffic.
Now some anti-freedom loving types must have complained, because he shifted the strobes so they were perpendicular to the road and only blinded drivers for a second or two as they went by. Still more complaints, and now the strobes are pointed inward away from the road. Drivers going by at night are no longer at risk of being temporarily blinded. A little less free, due to overbearing government regulation of businessmen who should be able to do what they want on their property and not be abused minorities.
But no longer blinded in nighttime traffic. Somehow it seems an acceptable tradeoff. (“No one’s forcing you to drive on that road! You could have gone miles out of your way to avoid the strobe lights!”). Nah.
Of course this happened in a state (Ohio) where we just passed a statewide public smoking ban, so no one should be surprised at this sort of tyranny.