A gay male, with everyone knowing he’s a gay male, would have to be very convincing to escape the general public’s preconcieved notions.
He wouldn’t have the benefit of the doubt.
Some people would look at a role differently if it were agay man playing it. What if an openly gay male played James Bond? I’m sure a good actor could pull it off, but some people would “see through it” and find reasons that he couldn’t pull it off.
Convincing at what? Benefit of what doubt? I’m honestly having trouble following you here. Are you saying the public expects gay men to be effeminite and would reject the notion that one was a studly action hero? I’m not sure that stereotype is so predominant anymore, is it? The hypermasculine gymcakes seem to have made their way into popular consciousness too.
I think the perceived problem hasn’t been as much that gay men wouldn’t be taken seriously as action heroes by straight men, but that straight women wouldn’t be interested in crowning a gay man King Heartthrob. I think that notion is in the process of changing, though.
I think he’s talking about the rampant homophobia in our society, and the type of macho men who like action movies often (NOT ALWAYS) contribute to it.
That’s all.
Your tone sort of hints to me that you’re under the impression I’m reading something specific into what he said. Now that he’s elaborated, I honestly don’t understand what he means. The straight macho men are the ones the gay actor would have to convince he is worthy of playing a macho man, is that it? That makes sense.
That is partially correct. The gay actor would also have to convince some straight women of the fact as well.
I’m not sure where I’m being unclear. Elaborate on my unclearness, please (heh).
Yes, the public would expect some gay people to act as such. I’d blame Will and Grace for a part of that, because I’ve met some gay guys that don’t have your stereotypical gay lisp.
I get the feeling we don’t disagree on this point.
Actually, that would be really hot.
Now I’m picturing a James Bond movie in which Bond is suave, attractive, seduces the ladies, dazzles the men…
Excuse me. I’ll be in my bunk.
What confused me was the talk about convincing combined with having to be a really good actor. I think now you just meant by that that the gay actor’s skills would have to be unimpeachable, because homophobes would look for every possible way to impugn him.
I do think we agree, yes. Though, the stereotype (and subculture) of effeminate gay men started long before Will & Grace, and it should be noted that the character Will is also gay without being swishy. Mostly. I don’t watch the show, I can’t stand any of the characters but Karen. But that was my impression.
Anyway, I’m sure there are plenty of aspiring gay actors who fit the bill nicely. We already know that closeted queer men can pull off leading man roles, so our hulking homophobes with misgivings might be reduced in number with a quick history lesson, hopefully leaving only the true bigots to object. They are still around in numbers great enough to cause trouble, but that’s changing. I don’t think the time for, say, Matt Damon to come out is quite now, but I do think it’s soon.
Brokeback was a huge step forward, especially when it comes to the straight woman problem. Straight women went to see it in droves. They went twice, three times. They took their sisters. The step from fictional gay cowboy to real gay action hero is a big one, but not as big as the one from invisible to visible, or from stereotypes to humanity.
Why do I think he’s way the hell out? Anyone? Am I confusing real life with tv life?
Yeah. Everyone assumes it, but he’s a question-dodger. So’s David Hyde Pierce, another openly gay non-out man, far as I know. Anderson Cooper might fall in this category too; he doesn’t hide it, but he doesn’t talk about it either, I think.
Ian Cumming, as someone else noted, but just to second this, is queer but not homo. As is Stephen Fry.
Maybe – the opening buzz makes me think that this one will actually crash and burn pretty quickly.
That said, three of the top fifty is still pretty good (and if it’s not good enough, then you need to pin down some definition of “superstar” so that we aren’t wasting time aiming at an infinitey mobile target).
Slight highjack, but I’m a little confused as to what it means to be “openly gay” while still not being “out.”
Also, what’s this I hear about Anderson Cooper?
(bolding mine)
I must not be up on my gay-speak, but…what is the difference between queer and homo? Are you saying that Cumming acts effete but isn’t actually a homosexual?
If the next iterations of The Day After Tomorrow and A Knight’s Tale prove that straight stars can move seamlessly between conventional macho/heartthrob straight roles and gay roles without being typecast or losing their credibility with audiences, I think it will be a huge step toward divorcing the sexuality of the actor with the sexuality of the role.
from the sexuality of the role.
My best guess is that he means than Alan Cumming is Bisexual as opposed to being gay. Alan was married for 8 years and has since dated both men and women.
Oh yes, he’s ever so. It’s no secret.
It means they’re seen in public with their same-sex partners, support gay rights in various ways, and acknowledge their gayness openly in their private lives. Not being “out” in this sense means that, as a public figure, they have never made a statement that they are gay, or answered a direct question about it (though I think Anderson Cooper actually might have, the more I think about it; I just can’t bring myself to google this, because I have a crush on him, and that would bring me one step too close to being a stalker).
Some in the queer community consider it bad not to Officially Come Out and be as openly gay as, say, Ian McKellan, who recently cheerfully informed the world that he thinks Magneto and Professor X should totally do it in one of the films. I don’t know if there was a thread on that in CS, but if not, I gotta start one. Anyway.
To steer back towards the general direction of the OP, the thinking goes that the more queer actors who come out, the more the public will be comfortable with the idea, and truly openly gay performers would not suffer discrimination in the industry, which they absolutely do now. So when I say I think the day is soon, I don’t mean very soon.
Now I want to mention Bryan Singer, who I’m surprised hasn’t come up yet. He’s not an actor, of course, but he is a young and talented director who is considered a hot property right now, industry-wise. He is openly gay, and it’s no secret that his films and shows cast gay actors. Now, there’s always been a bit of a Queer Mafia in Hollywood, but it’s never been as close to the surface as it is now, and this is one of the reasons I say while not very soon, soon enough we might see an openly gay leading man.
You know, I don’t want to seem like a conspiracist, but if I were in a position to make a difference in the industry, I might choose a young closeted gay actor I thought could really be something, and then gradually build him up until the public completely accepted him, at which time the closet door would open.
I think that the first openly gay action hero will probably come to us by that route, if not with the fanciful behind-the-seasons machinations - he or she will be a star first, and then come out. Then once that’s been done, someone can start out openly gay and become a superstar. And every time someone who isn’t quite a superstar but is a household name, like Ellen, does come out, that day gets closer.
On preview: OneCentStamp, I mean he is “bisexual”. I said queer because I don’t think he uses the term bi, but just says he is attracted to people. Some hold that there are more than two genders, so they feel ‘bi’ is misleading.
There are (basically) two sexes. There are more than two genders. Sex is biological, gender is social. There are people who see gender expression as a spectrum, not a set of poles.
This reminds me of somehting I read several years ago, about shows aimed at a female audience. The author said that the female lead characters always seemed to have sisters, but never brothers. She speculated that this was because a brother character would be played by a heartthrob, and the people who make TV shows assume that women will identify with the main character way more than could be healthy.
I would be willing to bet that the people who make movies feel the same way. Also, I think the first “movie star*” to come out while he was still in that stage of his career would have his career ruined. It would be the one thing that people remember about him, and that would get in the way of suspension of disbelief. The ones who followed wouldn’t, but that doesn’t help the first guy much.
*A movie star is very different from an actor. A movie star injects a part of his own personality into the part he’s playing, which makes the performance recognizably his. Marlon Brando was a movie star. John Garfield was not.
Not unless hetero women take to him, and then hetero men will take their cue from the women. Even women who are very liberal and accepting of lifestyle differences will get very black and white WRT personal preferences (ie no queers need apply) when it comes to assignng “heart throb” status to an openly gay male actor.