This is my last day of Guestness on the SDMB and I’ll have to wait until I can “borrow” a credit card to become a member. Before I go, I have been wondering about something that I think the SD pool of intelligence, or at least opinion, could help illuminate. As I’m not sure if this properly belongs in IMHO or the Cafe, I’m starting here.
So I was thinking about Rock Hudson the other day and how he had to hide his sexual orientation from the world for so long. I was thinking that things have really changed, but have they? It is ok to have gay characters in movies and tv -The Bird Cage, Will and Grace, Brokeback Mountain, etc. But what about gay performers?
It seems that we are fairly accepting of musicians who are “out” Elton John and Melissa Etheridge seem to be widely accepted. But I’m not sure how well it’s worked out for Rosie O’Donnell or Ellen Degeneres to let the world know they are gay. And I don’t know of any gay male movie stars who make their orientation known. Would an actor become box office poison if they were honest? Have we really become more accepting at all?
I think things have improved quite a bit. Well, if anything, the pro- and anti-gay factions have at least become more visibly polarized at any rate, and probably most of the fence-sitters have now come down on one side or the other. Just the same it has become much less socially acceptable to hate gays, and there has been a whole lot more acceptance of homosexuality where once it was more often simply sweeping the matter under the rug and pretending it didn’t exist in the hopes that it would eventually sort itself out.
There are still a lot of people – kids in particular – who still use “gay” as a pejorative, but I imagine that’s a bit of the vernacular that’s become so ingrained that much of the time those who say it aren’t even really making the mental connection to homosexuality, instead simply regarding it as a synonym for “stupid” or “bad” without much regard to its intended meaning.
But let’s face it: Gay Pride parades didn’t exist twenty years ago. Gay characters in movies and television (those at least that weren’t artsy flicks shown at Cannes or movies of the week) were unheard of except as creatures to be lamented and felt sorry for. And indeed, openly gay actors probably would have been box-office poison, too – assuming producers would ever hire them knowing they were gay in the first place.
Prejudices I think have fallen greatly since the 80s, even if they still have a long way to go. I don’t think being gay these days is nearly the same sort of career-killer it once was, and it certainly doesn’t make you a social leper anymore. Unless you’re surrounded by Southern Baptists, anyway.
A gay or straight performer needs only to be good at what they do professionally to make me happy.
Unfortunately, there are nut jobs out there calling for product boycotts in the name of god and sadly there are those who blindly follow the so-called Moral Majority.
I can imagine a lifetime of pain in needing to hide most of yourself most of the time. I really don’t understand those who want to force their belief/dogma on the rest of us.
I think Anne Heche was great as the love of Harrison Ford’s character in the movie that I remember but can’t name. I knew she was gay/bi before seeing the film and it made no difference to me in watching the film.
Rupert Everett is out (I think - at least I have the impression that he is) and his career is doing very well (again, I think).
I think a leading man (use Tom Cruise as an example), would have a really tough time convincing the audience that he’s really in love with the leading woman if he were oh… actually gay IRL.
Obviously there’s much more acceptance in society now. And gays are certainly accepted in movies and TV, but for the most part, as long as they’re playing gays!
Someone of Rock Hudson’s masculine, leading-man stature would still be serving himself a major career limiting move by coming out. Can you imagine Russell Crowe’s career, for example, if suddenly he was openly gay?
Of course they’re nothing career limiting about a straight male playing a gay male.
We’ve come a long way and still have a fair distance to go.
Now this list is interesting - only Nathan Lane is American, the other three are from the UK. Nathan Lane seems to mostly portray gay men. Are we more accepting of gay movie stars from the UK? Or is it easier to be honest about it there and still get work?
What about Colin Farrell? He has played bi, gay and straight roles, I think. What if he came out and said he was gay? (I have no idea if he is or not and wouldn’t care). Would his career be over? Would he be stuck in gay only roles from then on?
I think it’s better than it used to be, but I think it can still be considered a career-crushing act to come out. Rumor has it Kevin Spacey is in the closet with his hands and feet firmly planted on the door jam. And he’s considered to be one of the greatest actors evah. Some day…
It’s much easier nowadays than it was when I was in high school in the 60s. Back then, no one was willing to say they were gay. Even the rumors could wreck you (in the 50s, Liberace won a libel suit over someone implying it. Yes, he was, but he could not afford to let the word get out, even though he was a major, major star at the time.)
Gay actors may be reluctant since it will hurt their ability to play straight roles. If they don’t play leading men (with the heterosexual romantic issues that brings out), they are more likely to come out. And it’s a matter of public perception: some gay actors (e.g., Tab Hunter) in old Hollywood were out in the Hollywood community, but were closeted to the general public.
This statement only means something if the rumors are true. Anyone can claim a man is gay, but that proves nothing. But once people start spreading the rumor, it’s an impossible position if the story is false. If you deny it, they just say you’re in the closet. If denying you’re gay is a sign that you’re gay, then everyone is gay.
Max in “The Producers” and Nathan Detroit in “Guys and Dolls”. In both his character’s romances with women were central to the story. He has played some gay roles, but they certainly don’t define his career.
It means nothing to me either way. I’m just pointing out that the issue of coming out in Hollywood can still be a difficult decision for a lot of people. If he is gay, the fact that he’s a superstar certainly hasn’t made it easier for him to come out.
Well, okay – I should have said it was unheard of in my neck of the woods. It’s only in the last decade or so that I’ve seen full-on pride parades snaking their way down Yonge and along Queen.
'Course, NYC has always been a much bigger hodge podge of … well, everything really, so I guess it’s not particularly surprising to see things happening there before just about anywhere else.
Chad Allen seems to be doing pretty well. His upcoming project, Save Me, also includes out actor Robert Gant from Queer As Folk and gay-friendly Judith Light.
Well, it’s a list off the top of my head, not meant to be inclusive. It also happens to be a list of some of my personal favorite actors - that may be why you’re seeing a Brit-bias.
Ian has been quoted as saying that anyone complaining that gay men can’t get roles is suffering: "“Bullshit, I think that anyone who believes [that audiences would not accept gay actors] is just battling homophobia within themselves.” cite*
OTOH, Rupert has claimed he can’t get a good leading role because he’s openly gay. (Personally, I think it’s because he looks like a freak since he was sliced and diced, but that may be me.)
*an article on just this issue, if yer interested.
From what I can see there, the closest thing to a “parade” was 1984, which was simply a closing down of Church – though that was more like a street party than a parade. The first parade of any real sort was 1988, and (as in years previous) it was unofficial as Art “Egghead” Eggleton still refused to acknowledge it. It took three more years before Pride Day was officially recognized and a proper parade organized.
Yeah, I’m gonna call bullshit on this. You think that actors are only capable of portraying affection for someone they are personally attracted to? You think that someone who has never been attracted to a woman can’t convinvingly portray that in a movie (or to a man, for that matter). I think a number of people- Patrick Stewart, Ian Mckellan, Heath Ledger (I though he acted it pretty damn well) would disagree with you. You may want to look up a little thing called “acting” some day. Here’s a hint: it’s not the same as real life.
Straight actors can play gay characters with absolutely no career damage (Tom Hanks, Eric McCormack, Heath/Jake, etc.) and in fact it can be a boost due to the publicity.
Openly gay actors can play straight characters on stage with absolutely no problem (John Gielgud, Maurice Evans, Nathan Lane, etc.).
Openly gay actors who don’t “seem gay” (don’t flame me about how not all gays are effeminate or prissy, you’re singing Sondheim to the Chorus) can play non-gay (i.e. straight or asexual) SUPPORTING characters on film with little or no problem (Ian McKellen, Alan Cumming, David Hyde Pierce, Portia de Rossi, Simon Callow, etc.) and they can of course play gay characters on film with little or no problem.
But I honestly think it will still be years before you see a mainstream studio wide-release movie starring an openly gay actor as a straight leading man. If “confirmed bachelor” (though he did marry once long ago) George Clooney had come out at the Oscars as it was rumored (I don’t think anybody really believed them) he was going to do, I seriously doubt that any future projects he wasn’t under contract for already or didn’t produce himself would be anywhere near the caliber of his current projects. Whether it would affect the box office or not… hmmm. That’d be the proof of the pudding, but I don’t think there’s a studio out there willing to take a $60 million gamble and until they do openly gay actors are consigned to far cheaper arthouse and stage projects.
