Occasionally, I browse conservative blogs and stuff to see what the other side of the aisle is talking about. Normally, when writers there get up in arms about something, I usually know that it’s often something not worth worrying about.
Lately, Michelle Malkin has written about the Folsom Street Fair (a gay leather event in San Francisco), specifically advertising that allowed “underage” people to attend. When I read that “underage” meant “seventeen,” it was pretty much what I expected.
But today, it’s the presence of toddlers at the Fair. Now, I have no idea how common this is (for all I know, this could just be that one family), but commentary on that article (which of course includes the usual homophobic “those people” type claptrap) notes that this has been going on, APPARENTLY in sufficient numbers to raise concern in some circles, for the past three years.
This seems to indicate to me that it’s just common enough to be worth discussing. I’m pretty torn about this - considering the source, I viscerally think that it’s not worth paying attention to. On the other hand, I have a visceral reaction that this is a disturbing, if not bad, thing. I mean, some folks might argue that such children are too young to remember such events, or have an impact on them, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t feel that them witnessing, say, a murder will have a negative impact on them.
I know even a stopped clock is right twice a day, but I can’t tell if this is one of these cases. What do you all think? How can I calm my cognitive dissonance?
It seems very touristy and commercial, especially when I read about it in another wiki article, contrasting it with another fair that was way more intense. Other than the fact that there’s some nudity, some BDSM and leather, it doesn’t seem too inappropriate.
There are lots of places you shouldn’t bring kids. I have three under the age of five, so I’m reminded of this fact daily.
Were I to bring mine to nightclubs, bars, strip joints, and the like, I wouldn’t be considered a good father. I’d be a lousy patron as well - ruining lots of folks’ well-deserved nights out, or whatever.
So why should this be excused? The people present likely didn’t like seeing kids there. It wasn’t good for the kids, plainly. Really, I don’t see too many people who would defend bringing kids there.
Want to defuse this as a political issue? Illustrate that kids aren’t welcome there. I think most of us are on board with that, so this should be a cinch to do.
The last few times I was there, it seemed to get more touristy each year. So your kids get exposed to a bunch of buttless chaps, or maybe even some full nudity, but nothing that’s going to mentally scar them.
But, it’s still a very crowed adult fair, with lots of people with a beer in one hand and a lit cigarette in the other, and as Mr. Moto pointed out, it’s not the Renaissance Fair. The adults there are not there to show off for, and koochy-coo your toddler, and by bringing them you’re killing lots of adult buzzes.
So, just to be clear, the issue at hand is not “Folsom Street Fair Encourages You to Bring the Kids!!!”, so much as “a few individuals of debatable intelligence and/or parenting skills brought their kids to the Folsom Street Fair”, right?
Ok, just checking.
Oh, and I didn’t read *all * the comments on that site, but only because I couldn’t get my eyes to roll all the way back around after the first fifteen or so.
Who gives a shit? I don’t think it’s a place to bring your little kid, but if some kid happens to see someone in a weird costume, I doubt they’ll need therapy five days a week for the rest of their life. I doubt they’ll notice anything more than a strangely dressed man. I think some people, not all of whom are parents, are projecting their own insecurity and fear on “the children.” (Won’t someone think of them?)
That brings up a question, then: when the article quoted in my OP’s link says that someone is “masturbating in public,” what exactly does that mean, most likely? he was just grabbing his crotch? He actually whipped it out? IOW, folks like to paint all kinds of overt and exhibitionist sex acts going on at events like the Fair… What’s it really like?
Really, there’s a perfectly good Renaissance Faire down in Gilroy right now. We’re running for two more weeks. (Yes, I’m a director with one of the guilds at that Faire.)
I used to go to FSF, and its slightly smaller cousin, Dore Alley Fair faithfully, but both have far outgrown their pots and need some serious pruning. Every year, FSF seems to grow by another city block, if only to accommodate the thousands more people trying to cram themselves in. Any much later than noon, and there’s just too many people to be able to see anything or really do much more than be pushed slowly along by the mob. Not a good place to be claustrophobic! And the musical “acts” at either end seem to be in a competition with each other to liquefy people’s heads with massive amounds of volume.
I gave up on both FSF and Dore Alley about five years ago as they’d both become simply unpleasant - I can’t imagine how bad they are now. There really is such a thing as being too popular.
If that’s true, then it’s not an appropriate place for toddlers, IMHO. I have no problem with semi-public nudity (that is, I have no problem with nudist or clothing optional campgrounds or festivals or clubs - I’d be just as shocked as anyone at a naked guy walking around a Wal-Mart), and no problem with children being around semi-public nudity, but I do have a problem including anyone who has not given consent in sexual activities. And that includes forcing people to see or hear sexual activity they’ve not consented to. Since kids can’t give consent, they shouldn’t be there if there’s sexual stuff (like penis grabbing or public masturbation) going on.
But yeah, it sounds like stupid parents, not stupid festival producers.
Several years back (in…2001, or 2002, maybe) we had a Dopefest at the FSF, and one of the fully grown adult Dopers showed himself incapable of behaving himself there. (Making a loud comment about how a woman is too fat for her leather corset in public? Real smooth, dude.) I don’t think the experience would scar any kid for life, but it’s definitely not appropriate for children and I would question the judgement of anyone who brought their kids there.
Perhaps the people who organize and participate in this spectacle should come up with some sort of signal to use when a kid is present and has to be shooed away.
Maybe we could call it, oh, a “safe word”. Like, say, “Palomino”.
I was there Sunday, and I went a couple of years ago.
IMO, it’s not a place for kids. And I wasn’t seeking them out, but I didn’t notice any kids while I was there. I agree with Kyla, might not scar a kid, but not appropriate and a poor judgment call on the part of the parents.
As for what it’s like. I couldn’t describe it and do it justice. There is sex going on. There are beatings, floggings, whippings, pinchings, etc. going on. There is masturbation (and release), anal and vaginal sex, golden showers, blow jobs, hand jobs, you name it. Furries, masks, fun BDSM outfits, all kinds of costumes, leather, spandex, chains, whips, etc., and lots of people wearing nothing at all.
It’s crowded, which really makes it not appropriate for kids. The poor things would have their little faces in a sea of cock and sweaty ass.
My initial reaction to the OP was, oh, I’ve been to the gay pride parade here in Chicago…you see some topless women and chap-wearing guys, but it’s not a big deal…if you distract the kid for a minute, they’d miss it. But I read your post and, uh, that’s a different story. No way would I bring any kid under 18 to that. If my kid was in HS, and they went down there, I wouldn’t freak out about it, but I wouldn’t endorse it as a parent with any minor child.
No, it’s definitely not a gay parade. But, whenever I’ve been there and something raunchy started happening, a wall of adults quickly surrounds it and even as an adult, I have a hard time getting a good view of what’s going on. It’d be difficult for a little kid to get a view of any live sex acts, I’d think.
Okay now that I have more time…My BF and I walked through it this weekend on the way to our Indian lunch buffet ritual. There were people in various states of undress and my favorite was a huge man on the ground licking the boots of another man. I mean I think it would be hard enough to explain sex to a child much less kink and fetish. I feel like there is some sort of San Francisco event every month with public sex and nudity. Maybe the kids here just have to be conditioned to it. Or maybe the parents should take them somewhere more wholesome. The boot lickers should NOT have to have a safeword for their own street fair though.