I just watched that video, and WOW, could ABC news be any more biased? They’re acting like the kid was just sniffling a little and the airline would have tossed her out the exit hatch if she had started crying en route.
Absolutely. Someone tell me why “being your child’s advocate” gets translated to “let your kid ruin your day, everyone else’s day, as well as her own day.”
I advocate for my kids, sure. I am their advocate by teaching them how to behave. I am their advocate by showing them an example of how to react politely and with respect to authority figures, which includes flight attendants when on an airplane.
I have those kids that everyone gives compliments to in waiting rooms and restaurants and airplanes. They didn’t get that way by my letting them crawl under the chairs and hit me. Sometimes talk works, sometimes bribes work, and sometimes you just push on the hipbones and snap the seatbelt shut really quickly between bucks.
Yeah, I’m not buying that they kicked her off for CRYING. They kicked her off because they wouldn’t or couldn’t get her into her seat. In the incident I had on the plane, my daughter was fine on my lap. When the flight attendant made me strap her into her seat, she started screaming. The flight attendant couldn’t care less that my kid was crying…she just needed to have her strapped in.
My husband travels very frequently for work and AirTran is the carrier he uses most often. Obviously, we are on the side of the airline here. I saw the same filmed interview teela brown mentions in the OP and I agree with her that this looks like a situation where the kid is allowed to rule her family, and her family is (unreasonably) upset to discover that she can’t also rule the wider world. My guess is, this kid (and her parents) are going to be very unpopular with some unlucky teachers and school systems in a few years.
The thing about the split seats reminds me of a very sad story my mother tells. In 1963, my mother had to take me and my 2 siblings on a plane to Hawaii to meet my father, who was stationed there with the Navy. I was 3 years old, my brother was 2, and my sister was 1. The seats on the plane were in banks of three, and each of us had to have a seat to ourselves, even the baby. My mother (only 23 herself, rather shy and flying for the first time), wasn’t allowed to hold the baby on her lap – one of us had to sit in one of the seats behind. I was the natural choice – my brother was hyper as hell, and my sister was a very clingy baby. I was the oldest, reasonably well-behaved, and the chatty kind of kid who never met a stranger. Behind us were two soldiers, both in their dress uniforms, on the way to meet their unit in Hawaii and then on to Vietnam. One of the soldiers reassured my mom, saying that he had a daughter my age and that I’d be fine with him.
What none of us knew was that, in childhood, I was rather violently prone to motion sickness. Sudden, projectile motion sickness. All over their dress uniforms.
Mom was absolutely mortified, as you can imagine. But the soldier was as sweet to me as could be, cleaning me up, and comforting me and assuring Mom that a little kid-puke wouldn’t kill him. His first name was Sandy and Mom always ends the story by saying that she has no way of knowing whether or not he made it home from Vietnam, but that she sure hopes that he did. He was a standup guy.
If they had two seats together and one apart, and were trying to seat a 3 year old in the single one, they’re idiots. But it sounds like they’re idiots anyway.
Reminds me of a story, though: I remember once we were flying with Dominic, who was about four at the time. We all had assigned seats but they weren’t together (any of them). Naturally we first asked the person in the seat next to Dominic’s assigned seat if they’d be willing to trade seats. The guy was kind of a dick and said no. So I started to seat Dominic next to him and made sure to over-play* the whole “ok now make sure you don’t bother this gentleman, ok?” etc etc etc. Once the guy realized that he was going to be sitting next to an unsupervised 4 year old, he suddenly changed his mind about trading seats. (He ended up with a better seat, I don’t see what the problem was. He did seem like kind of a dick though)
*Dominic is, was, and always has been a very good traveler and so there really wasn’t much need to have this big lecture…
Did anyone take the poll on the ABC website? It’s at approximately 18,000 to 10,000 against the parents right now.
Anyway, I’m with the majority here. Those parents are dolts.
And what’s up with that annoying anchor introducing that brat as “the little angel, Elly” in a sing-song voice? ABC is so slanted… not even bothering to mention that the kid was in violation of airline regulations. Instead, they downgraded her behavior to simply crying too much and too loudly.
I took the poll and found the reasons for going against the parents really annoying. They weren’t even remotely related to my reasons. Whole thing seemed like pretty poor journalism.
That’s a really sweet story, Jess.
GT
I know nobody wants to hear this, but I don’t think the underlined quote translates to “Let your child act up to his heart’s content because other people don’t deserve consideration.”
Beyond getting a child physically in line (seatbelt, sitting still, whatever), it’s also important to get a child to calm down and stop screaming. Now, you can’t force them to do that, the way you can force them into their seat. It may not sound acceptable, but a parent does have to remain calm if they’re going to have any hope of getting their child to calm down.
If the parent dwells on the fact that other people are being disturbed, instead of concentrating on stopping the disturbance, they’re going to become tense, agitated, eventually angry. The child will sense that tension, and then they’ll never cooperate. What good does it do any of the other passengers if the parent(s) get further frustrated by their glaring and grumbling? If the parent(s) seem(s) to be tuning you out, they may well be, but it may be for the greater good.
And whenever this subject comes up, there’s always a parent (separate from the parents whose children never, ever acted up for a nanosecond) who says, “My kid used to act up but I did such and such, and acting up did not become a lifelong habit.” It’s true, what the parenting contributor said: You’re not going to see these people again, and that applies to the glaring passengers as well as the harried parents. If you see a kid acting up, how do you know you’re not seeing the last, or the second- or third-to-last episode of his life? Why does everyone always assume that one incident that they happened to witness means that society is going to hell in a greased handbasket?
Heh. This is funny. I have a 2 year old who is very well behaved, but the lessons Ginger and I have taught him have sunk in deeply. When he gets upset and doesn’t want to do anything, he’ll be just like any other 2 year old, squirming and wiggling, fighting hard to not do what he doesn’t want to do. But the whole time he’ll be saying, in an insistent tone of voice; “No thank you daddy, no thank you daddy, NO thank you daddy, no THANK YOU daddy, NO THANK YOU DADDY!!!” It’s kind of amusing.
Afterwards.
I didn’t take my kids many places when they were infants. I strongly believed it was not fair for me to inconvenience other people because I wanted to take my kid places like restaurants. Apparently many other people feel differently. But here it seems we are discussing kids somewhat older than infants.
From the time my kids (3) were toddlers, I can remember (a very few) occasions that they threw tantrums in public - such as on a commuter train. I had no compunction against holding my hand over their mouth to muffle their noise as I sternly informed them they had no choice but to be quiet immediately, and if they did not comply they would be severely punished when we got home. And I remember (a very few) occasions where we simply packed up and left somewhere like a mall when a kid was misbehaving - again with the promise of retribution. And I can remember (a very few) spanks administered in our cars in parking lots or at home.
I guess we were terrible parents. Must be why our kids all are now antisocial HS dropouts, on drugs, knocked up, and have criminal records.
I have walked out of a movie theater with a crying Ivyboy. Once in a bank I had him, a handful of paperwork, and his sister in a carrier, a purse and a diaper bag slung over my shoulder. Three year old Ivyboy was bothering his baby sister, and since my hands were full, I tapped him with my foot to get him to stop.
He looked at me and yelled, “Don’t kick me, Mommy!” I was mortified, since I hadn’t kicked him.
I will tell you, I was a little paranoid about disciplining them in public for fear some overzealous busybody would call the cops on me for “abuse.” But I am completely on the side of the airline here, the parents should have strapped the kid in her seat no matter how much she screamed. And if she’s hitting her parents NOW, they’re going to have major problems later.
Our kids have had tantrums in public and we muffle the mouth if needed, or remove them, or spank them, or ignore them when appropriate (and the ambient noise level is high enough).
At least they’re doing something with their lives - being independent, contributing to the economy with their pharmaceutical purchases, raising a family, providing employment to members of the justice system - instead of just watching TV and eating Pringles [sub]my favorite hobby[/sub] 
My mother was the master of what Miss Manners calls “The Look.” You know – that look your mom or dad gives you that says “Stop that at once or when I get you alone there will be hell to pay.” My brother was one of those hyper kids who wouldn’t stand still long enough to see The Look, so she also could and did deploy a move in which she would take your arm up high by the armpit and twist the skin on the underside with her fingers - a pinch, but not with her nails. This would elevate you right off the floor as she whispered in your ear whatever you needed to know, like “I told you not to touch things in the store and I don’t want to see you do it again.” Release. Ouch! One time in a store, she did it to my brother who yelled “YOU’RE PINCHING ME! STOP IT MOM!” She gave him the laser eye and said, “That’s right, I’m pinching you. And if you don’t calm down and knock it off you’ll wish that’s all I did.” She was embarrassed but she wasn’t backing down. Shut the boy right up. 
I never traveled with my kids when they were little, but when we did go in public, I never allowed them to act like animals either.
Both of my kids at about 2.5-3 years old had one meltdown in public. When it happened, I took them outside put them in the car, buckled into their car seat. I explained to them that I would not allow them to distrub all the other people in the supermarket with their screaming. I sat in the front, and read a book while they screamed. After about 10 minutes they ran out of gas and stopped. I asked if they were ready to go back inside and act like a proper young gentleman (lady) they answered yes, somewhat meekly, and we went inside.
Never happened again. 
It is amazing just how fast a child can learn what works, and what doesn’t.
It is time the parents of this hell spawn wake up smell the coffee and learn to parent.
Bravo to the airline, no wait check that. They rewarded these assholes with free tickets for acting like assholes. WTF is up with that? Now these assholes are badmouthing the airline. It is obvious that giving them free tickets did not maintain the customer’s loyalty, so that was money thrown away by the airline. :smack:
Gotta hijack a tad and answer.
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My wife has the kids and meets her friend and her friend’s kids at a mall. They go to the food court and get food to the table. Our son throws a tantrum and she straps him into the stroller. He still screams. They are trying to hurry through lunch. A woman comes over and says her mother is trying to shop for a card for a death in the family and could she keep the child quiet. My wife is apologetic and explains briefly about our son’s autism and problems. A short time later the woman has called Mall Security and the guard comes saying that my wife must come with our son and talk. She is forced to leave our other children with our friend and her children. He escorts them to one of those corridors between stores that leads back into the bowels of the mall. He says he has to ask her to leave the mall because of the complaint about the noise. At first he wasn’t going to let her return because there might be more noise. Nevermind that she’s had to abandon the other kids, oh no. Fortunately her friend is a good friend and fortunately the Mall Cop relents. They reunite, gather up, and leave.
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We attend a 4th of July fireworks show at an airport. We park in the adjacent parking lot at the fringe of the event. After a bit our son has another tantrum and we strap him in the stroller. He screams some. We guage the noise level, the noise distance to people nearby, and wanting to give ourselves and our other kids a fun time to0. Other kids are running around and it’s a 4th of July fun time. So we park the stroller about, oh, 10 feet away, and keep an eye on him (e.g. I’m usually facing with my left side toward the fireworks and my right toward the stroller). Well, a police officer shows up saying that someone at the event reported us abandoning our child. We explain and even show him our handout that explains his conditions. The police officer understands and leaves and we all enjoy the fireworks. Our son calms down and takes a nap.
My worries about what might happen are worse than what does happen, and so appropriately my favorite quote is “I’ve been through some terrible things in my life, and some of them actually happened - Mark Twain”
Rilchiam
I’m glad you said it before I did. That bit of advice is meant to help you focus on the real problem (settling your child) and not awkward and embarrassing situation that he’s creating.
I can’t speak for other parents (some of whom may doing a bad job) but I can tell you what it’s like for my wife and I. We understand that you’re annoyed. So are we. If he’s having a bad day this isn’t the first crying spell we’ve had to deal with. If the crying is annoying to you from three rows away then imagine what it sounds like six inches from your ear. Understand that I’m at least as tired, stressed and uncomfortable as you are and quite likely more so thanks to the kid.
I’m acutely aware of the fact that my child is making things unpleasant to everyone within hearing. I’m sympathetic toward the people around me and am embarrassed and guilty for the trouble my kid is causing. Those of you who roll your eyes or give the death stare to the parents of a crying kid? Get bent. Those of you who offer to help? Thank you. You already have by just by offering.
Mini-hijack: why is it that no matter how hard you try, no matter how far in advance you book it, no matter how much Cust. Service assures you it won’t happen, even if you pre-print your fucking boarding passes, when you book 4 seats on a plane some airline fuck-tard ALWAYS splits you up 3 & 1??? Why I am Always stuck asking favors of, or at worst bribing a C-note to, some idiot that, had the airlines the comon sense Og gave a 5-year old playing TETRIS, wouldn’t be sitting there anyway??? Thats right, two adults, two kids here. And if you split up the four, you need to make it 2x2 or you’re just trolling for trouble.
Look, I’m a nice guy, and I’m reasonable to fairly high limits. My kids are pretty well behaved (oldest is a flyers wet dream; my youngest is 4 and well-behaved 80% of the time), but dammit, you can’t force one parent to watch two kids for 2 hours the way your passengers and crew expect them to be watched while shoving the other parent 20 rows away. Its not rocket science, but it doesn’t get solved by pretending there’s no problem either. Hell, I’m trying to make your job Easier, Continental, because I’m trying to eliminate any possibility of a melt down.
No, I’m not trying to weasel first class upgrades out of you; I don’t even want an extra bag of chips. I just want the reservation that I made 4 months ago to be kept the way that I made it.
**“We know how to keep a reservation, Sir!”
[Seinfeld]“I don’t think you do! You know how to Take the reservation…you just don’t know how to Keep the Reservation…!”[/Seinfeld]**
But according to the parents, that’s all it was.
If the parents legitimately refused to buckle the child into her seat, of course they had to be removed. They claim that is now what happened, however, and this claim of a “fifteen minute delay” sounds fishy - Christ, every plane I’m on is held up by a dozen or more idiots who can’t ifnd their seats, want to change seats, bring carryon the size of steamer trunks, etc. etc.
There’s two sides to every story.
Frak…my 5 minutes is up & I can’t edit. I thought this was a pit thread & spoke inappropriately…then got called away to a spreadsheet & I can’t edit them out.
I humbly apologize publicly for my bad language; I will do my best to avoid posting blue in future, at least in MPSIMS.
I’m Sorry.
Tell me about it! On our flight that I mentioned earlier in the thread, the leg from Australia to LA was hellish. When we got on the plane, they had all three of our seats split up in totally different sections of the plane. They thought it was perfectly reasonable to have a three year old totally separated from his parents, who would also be separated. Plus, one of us would have had the baby on our lap. For FOURTEEN HOURS! Then, when we indicated that this really wasn’t the best plan, the stewardess acted like we were being extremely unreasonable. Thankfully, as my voice started getting a little louder, people around us started to pick up on the situation and the passengers fixed everything up for us. We ended up having a bulkhead row all to ourselves. That was only the first of a list of stupid things that happened on that flight.