Tolkien Fan Entmoot

Cafe Society
81

[QUOTE=Balance]
…I would say that it’s Tolkien’s attention to detail, his world-building, that draws me the most. We may not actually see in the text what lies over the hill, or in the house down the road a bit, but there is a pervasive sense that Tolkien could have told you, if you had only asked. As something of an obsessive world-builder myself, I find that inspiring. The concept of sub-creation resonates with me for much the same reason…

[/QUOTE]

You’ll want to read his Letters, edited by Humphrey Carter, then. JRRT answered a lot of questions from contemporary readers/admirers, with a lot of stuff that you probably thought of when you were reading but wouldn’t think to write down. “Where was Tolkien going with that?,” you’d ask, and odds are it’s addressed in the Letters.

Favorite characters: Gandalf (wise, mysterious, testy, charming), Aragorn (smart, strong, honorable, brave, patriotic - and I, too, prefer the movie version to the books’), and Elendil (brave, committed, visionary, a patriarch in the best sense of the world).

82

IMO, Book Aragorn is rather more nuanced than the film version. Movie Aragorn is a somewhat moody, reluctant hero with greatness thrust upon him, but Book Aragorn is a purposeful man who has been carefully pursuing his destiny and goal with great care for two lifetimes of most mortal men, and like Gandalf had traveled widely in the world incognito to serve in various causes in Gondor and Rohan, and even to the East in Haradrim, and to Harad “where the stars are strange”.

And yet, he retains “the common touch”, as seen when he first meets Frodo and Co. at the Prancing Pony (“You have really put your foot in it! Or should I say, your finger?”), and Sam and Butterbur mistrust the look of him. And of course his awesome telling off of Merry Brandybuck in the Houses of Healing, about how he is very busy and has no patience for “careless soldiers who throw away their gear” when Merry’s backpack is right there at the foot of his bed.

83

[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
I love Tolkien’s works, but I’m hardly a scholar on them. I do like reading the threads here talking about them, and I have learned a lot via QtM’s posts. hat tip :slight_smile:
[/QUOTE]

What she said. See? Even in this thread, someone’s already said what I’d say. That’s why, although I adore LOTR (books and movies), I seldom post in Tolkien threads.
I will admit to not being particularly enamoured of his other works, though.

84

[QUOTE=Balance]
I trust that I am in time for the moot? I was standing in the rain, thinking, and did not want to cut it short.

I would say that it’s Tolkien’s attention to detail, his world-building, that draws me the most. We may not actually see in the text what lies over the hill, or in the house down the road a bit, but there is a pervasive sense that Tolkien could have told you, if you had only asked. As something of an obsessive world-builder myself, I find that inspiring. The concept of sub-creation resonates with me for much the same reason.

I seldom actually post to the Tolkien threads, bowing instead to those more learned than I.
[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the Moot. Barroom-Hrrrup-brumma :wink:

[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir]
…and Elendil (brave, committed, visionary, a patriarch in the best sense of the world).
[/QUOTE]

I think I could have guess that last one.

[QUOTE=TroubleAgain]
What she said. See? Even in this thread, someone’s already said what I’d say. That’s why, although I adore LOTR (books and movies), I seldom post in Tolkien threads.

I will admit to not being particularly enamoured of his other works, though.
[/QUOTE]

Have you ever read his short works like Farmer Giles of Ham or Smith of Wootton Major?

You might find these shorter, humorous tales quite wonderful.

Jim

85

[QUOTE=robardin]
IMO, Book Aragorn is rather more nuanced than the film version. Movie Aragorn is a somewhat moody, reluctant hero with greatness thrust upon him, but Book Aragorn is a purposeful man who has been carefully pursuing his destiny and goal with great care for two lifetimes of most mortal men, and like Gandalf had traveled widely in the world incognito to serve in various causes in Gondor and Rohan, and even to the East in Haradrim, and to Harad “where the stars are strange”.

And yet, he retains “the common touch”, as seen when he first meets Frodo and Co. at the Prancing Pony (“You have really put your foot in it! Or should I say, your finger?”), and Sam and Butterbur mistrust the look of him. And of course his awesome telling off of Merry Brandybuck in the Houses of Healing, about how he is very busy and has no patience for “careless soldiers who throw away their gear” when Merry’s backpack is right there at the foot of his bed.
[/QUOTE]

I’m not an Ent, so I have no trouble bowing to you, robardin!

Precisely. I have been in love with Book-Aragorn for 43 years, and wondered where that nasally-whiney-sensitive-new-age-guy came from in the movies.

Dear me. Are we about to go at it again?

I now bow out.

86

Interestingly, I am often disappointed these days by the lack of knowledge among Tolkein lovers of his non-LotR universe works. Such as the very wonderful Farmer Giles of Ham (a hoot to read to kids). Or the lovely Smith of Wooten Major. And then there is “Leaf by Niggle”, a very nice short story, which has some enhanced value if you have read the Professor’s lecture on fairy tales.

Also, he had some very fun poetry to read, not all of which is bound up in the Middle-Earth universe.

I firmly believe that, in centuries to come, English Lit. students will read Tolkein.

87

To be fair, they already do. Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics is read by, well, just about everyone with a passing interest in early English literature.

As much as JRRT’s fiction has influenced me over the years, I wish he had spent just a tad more time writing scholarly articles like the above. It was truly groundbreaking, and I believe he had yet more to offer.

88

[QUOTE=Maeglin]
To be fair, they already do. Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics is read by, well, just about everyone with a passing interest in early English literature.

As much as JRRT’s fiction has influenced me over the years, I wish he had spent just a tad more time writing scholarly articles like the above. It was truly groundbreaking, and I believe he had yet more to offer.
[/QUOTE]

I will go out on a sturdy limb and say that a large part of both his genius and his shortcomings was that he was a perfectionist. He would labor long and hard over every passage. He would write, rewrite, revised, revert, rewrite again, strike that and replace and then verify for consistency that cause rewrites of other completed pieces.

This prevented Tolkien from producing the amount of material that most of us in this thread wish he did and at the same time provided the great depth and detail that we love.

Jim

89

I enjoyed Leaf by Niggle, Farmer Giles of Ham, Smith of Wooten Major. But I liked The Battle of Maldon the best of his “non Middle Earth” work.

His essay “On Faerie” bored me to death, or pretty near. About 1 mm near.

He was a great writer, in patches. But only in patches.

90

I always read the Tolkien threads, but rarely post because I always arrive too late to add anything new or interesting to the discussion (like now, alas). Like many, I discovered The Hobbit and LOTR in the early '70’s and have read them once a year or so ever since - in fact, I’m reading them aloud to my husband before bed. We are just about to start Book Six. I love them, but can’t claim any degree of True Geekhood.

Favorite characters - love Tom and Goldberry, partly for the scenes in Fellowship and partly from some of the other Tom Bombadil adventures. I love that she tried to drown him and they ended up married. A proper River-Woman’s daughter - a kelpie, maybe?

Also fond of Boromir, the real tragic hero. The nearly-perfect paladin, tempted beyond his strength.

Won’t get in to the book vs movie portrayals - those have been hashed to death on the boards and probably will continue to be.

Farmer Giles is great - almost reads like Tolkien writing in the style of Terry Pratchett. It would make a fun family movie - maybe someone can get Pixar the rights.

91

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Welcome to the Moot. Barroom-Hrrrup-brumma :wink:

I think I could have guess that last one.

Have you ever read his short works like Farmer Giles of Ham or Smith of Wootton Major?

You might find these shorter, humorous tales quite wonderful.

Jim
[/QUOTE]

No, I’ve never heard of them!

92

[QUOTE=TroubleAgain]
No, I’ve never heard of them!
[/QUOTE]

You can probably find them in the Library or order from any online bookstore. I don’t think Tolkien stuff goes out of print.

They are very good.

93

[QUOTE=glee]
:eek: - I feel like I’m an Entwife! Nobody remembers me. :frowning:
[/QUOTE]

No, no. We remember you, we just lost you. :slight_smile:

I read, but everyone else says what I’d say, so I don’t bother posting.

94

As far as favorite characters are, I can’t name only three. Some are tied as favorites. My favorites are:

  1. Gandalf the Grey/Elrond
  2. Beorn/Tom Bombadil and his Wife
  3. E’owyn
  4. Gollum as the poor tortured creature, who redeems himself in the end. I think he went with the Ring at the end knowing it was his way to be Free from it, it was somewhat selfish, “No one else will destroy My Precious but ME!” but he did it.
  5. Galadriel

But for Tolkien’s other works, I find I’m fond of the dog of Farmer Giles’ of Ham, and the dragon Chrysophylax Dives in that story, I also like Farmer Giles himself, but not as much as the poor dragon. I also like Starbrow (Smith’s son) and Alf in Smith of Wootton Major.

95

Dang it, I posted. I know I did. <sigh> I’ll try again:

Please include me in the Moot. I have bona fides! I owned the Ace editions–red cover, yellow cover, blue cover–and read them until they fell apart*.

I posted one correct answer to the LotR trivia thread we had a while (2 years?) back.

I was the archivist for that thread also. That ought to get me a point or two.

My favorite character is Frodo. Because I’m a sucker for anyone who takes on an impossible task. Because he said “I will take the ring” into the silence.

*OK, it only took about 4 reads, but hey…

96

[QUOTE=Mrs. Cake]
IAlso fond of Boromir, the real tragic hero. The nearly-perfect paladin, tempted beyond his strength.
[/QUOTE]
Ditto. Of all of the men in the books, he was the most human.

97

I read the OP’s just to make sure I wasn’t on it.
Phew.

98

When I read the thread title I thought this was about a real-life Doper Entmoot, and was annoyed by the fact that I am across the pond and couldn’t participate. But it’s a virtual Entmoot, much better, count me in! Although I never post in the Tolkien threads, as usually somebody more competent will have come along and answered the question before I even look at the thread. That, and I, too, have trouble remembering names and places (hello, eleanorigby, fellow Georgette Heyer aficionado).

I fell in love with the detailed history of Middle Earth, and its language - I read LOTR when I was 15, and my book (which I still read every year, and which is falling apart somewhat) is covered with pencil notes where I translated the runes.

Also, the Scouring of the Shire was breathtaking in the sense of imparting the message that sometimes, you can’t just go home again and have everything be fine. I disliked that omission of the movies most of all. However, I still really like them, much for the same reason that QtM offered, because you could see all the thought and love that went into them, and for all their flaws they IMHO really transported the epic grandness of the tale.

My favorite characters are Sam, for all the reasons mentioned earlier, and Bilbo. I especially love the first scene of the Hobbit, where the Dwarves keep piling in, and Bilbo just serves them tea, because he’s just such a nice hospitable push-over. I also really liked Beorn, thank you for reminding me, I probably should go and reread the Hobbit soon.

And I actually own a copy of Smith of Wootton Major which I’ve never gotten around to read. If you’re interested and can’t find the book anywhere else, TroubleAgain, maybe we could share…drop me a PM.

99

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
What are your favorite characters and why?
[/QUOTE]

Glorfindel.

He’s a badass.

Good counterexample for that cliche weak and sissy elves. In fantasy (and mostly RPG) it’s always strong and good at fighting dwarfs and weak and good only in archery elves. But seriously, just think about it. If somebody had thousands of years of combat training and experience, wouldn’t he become a really tough warrior? Plus, there is a lot interesting things in his story - like that stay at Halls of Mandos, for example :wink:

100

[QUOTE=puppygod]
But seriously, just think about it. If somebody had thousands of years of combat training and experience, wouldn’t he become a really tough warrior?
[/QUOTE]

I’m fairly sure the time spent before the Exile in the company of the Valar and the Light of the Two Trees had something to do with it, too.