Tolkien query: any link between "numinous" & "Numenór"

As I may have mentioned elsewhere, I introduced my stepdaughter to Lord of the Rings a few months ago, and she’s fallen in love not merely with the greatest of the Inklings but also the lesser lights among them. Last night she asked me a question I could not answer. I thought I’d pass it on because, hey, we’ve got Qadgop :wink: and because it might be a good jumping-off point for an interesting discussion.

The question arose because she was reading Lewis’s Miracles, which introduced her to the word “numinous.” Noticing the similarity that word to Numenór, and bearing in mind the fact that the Dunedain were the race of men most in tune with the Gods (well, the Valar), she wondered if that was a deliberate coinage or mere coincidence. Though I’ve always thought that was the case, I can’t think of anything authoritive on the subject. Do any of you know anything on this matter?

That’s the basic question. I’m also interested in any other subtle philological or etymological usages in any Middle-earth literature.

That’s a really good question. My initial reaction is to say it’s coincidence, but I have to admit that I may be missing something in the Letters or HOMES, and I don’t have my references here at work. So I’m basically just plugging this in as a subscription to the thread.

Tolkien was asked about it a couple of times in letters, and said that it was coincidence; the name was derived from Elvish root words and it was not intended to suggest ‘numinous.’ He probably didn’t mind the connotation though.

Apparently, C.S. Lewis heard the name from Tolkien at the Inkling society meetings, and made the same mistake. Since Lewis was fond of the term ‘numinous,’ he inferred wrongly that ‘Numenor’ was meant to be spelt the same way. Thus one finds mention of ‘Numinor’ in That Hideous Strength as a little homage to his associate.

That’s not what you tell your stepdaughter, though. You tell her that Tolkien decided on ‘Numenor’ only after much thought. At first, since the land was closest to the light of the Undying Lands, he was going to call it ‘Luminor.’

Then he changed his mind. Since it was the home of the most advanced humans in Middle-Earth, he was going to name it ‘Humanor.’

Then he decided that it was the original home of the Kine of Araw, and named it ‘Rumenor.’

Then he decided that it was the place that the Great Eagles went to lay their eggs, and named it ‘Albumenor.’

Then, since people there loved to sing so much, he named the island ‘Troubador.’

Then he decided that it was the original source of pipe-weed, and named it ‘Humidor.’

Keep doing this until she starts hitting you.

Shouldn’t take long if my reaction is any indication…

Okay, I’ve been trying to teach her to be more assertive, but this doesn’t strike me as the best tack.

Can’t add much other than Numenor is derived from the Quenya ‘Numenore’, or West-land.

In an airport at the moment, don’t have my usual resources at hand.

Now I know how Jimmy Olsen feels when he hits the button on his signal watch & Superman is busy fighting dragons in Argentina.

Think how I feel, I don’t even have any idea where to look for this one. I can tell you that the link is unlikely as Númenor went through several shifts in his early writings and that it is probably a coincidence. On the other hand he ensured that one name for Númenor was close to Atlantis and that the Elven Isle was similar to Avalon. So he might have tweak it close to numinous along the way as it was suppose to be a Holy Land given by the Gods/Valar as a reward for faithfulness to Eru.

Let’s see…if QtM is our Tolkien Superman…you’re probably Green Lantern. (Well, Wonder Woman actually, but I don’t want to offend your masculinity.)

I of course am Mister Mxyzptlk. Mightier than either of you, but mostly interested in mischief, cigars, & scoring nude pictures of Galadriel.

I’m stuck with being Rick Jones, aren’t I?

sigh

:: checks list ::

The good news is that you are not Rick Jones. You’re a full-blown, no-two-ways-about-it, non-sidekick Avenger.

Sadly, that Avenger is Ant Man.

Oh, well. It’s not THAT bad. As long as I don’t actually have to be Henry Pym…

First, you will TAKE THAT BACK or I shall most certainly release…

Damn. No more mutant bees.

Anyway, there’s nothing wrong with Hank Pym. I love Hank Pym. He rocks. I mean, Janet van Dyne, Marvel’s hottest chick, chose to be with him when Thor–THOR–was right there on the other side of table. Clearly Pym’s got some bedroom game.

My point s that you’re the other Ant Man. Scott Lang. Who is, you know, dead.

Sorry. You can blame Bendis.

Am I too late to the thread to get a comics-analogue designation?

:: crosses fingers ::

Of course not. I was just waiting for you. Half a moment…

:: runs EH’s posts through analyzer ::

Holy crap! You’re the goddamn Batman!

Stupid analyzer. In what universe is Elendil’s Heir cooler than me?

ETA: That’s the Dark Knight Returns/Year One Batman, not Dark Knight Strikes Back or All-Star Batman & Robin Bruce.

OK, now I don’t really know anything but the basic on Superheroes so I need a little help. The Green Lanterns are kind of sort of Lensmen right? If so cool! I would rather be a Lensman than Batman anyway. Basically a Paladin, FBI Agent & Space Seal rolled up in one package. However that might specifically put me at odds with **Qadgop the Mercotan ** who is after all effectively an enemy of the Lensmen.

Lanterns have enormously more physical might than Lensmen, but, in a fight, Kinnison would eat Hal Jordan’s lunch. (Jordan being the greatest of the Lanterns).

Of course, Wonder Woman could kick both their asses.

Thank you, Skald. Whatever happens now, I’ll be… well, you know.

In Tolkien’s earliest drafts, the character who later became Sauron was initially named Tevildo, Prince of Cats. This heritage is reflected in the catlike appearance of the Dark Lord’s lidless eye. Originally, it was Tevildo who corrupted the Men of the West, inciting them to turn away from the Valar and adopt a blasphemous new faith of Tevildo’s own design: cat-worship.

This early version of the myth explains that, to honor their idolatrous new feline pantheon, the population gave their land a more suitable name: Pumanor.

Can I get a comic identity too? :flutters eyelashes: