Wait – you’re okay with the Earth being flat until, what, 9,000 years ago, and then being globulated by the hand of Eru, but you can’t handle the idea of Earendil being at the driver’s seat of the Venus-mobile?
That one doesn’t bother me. Bilbo wrote There and Back Again for Hobbit children, after all.
Not precisely. My personal take on the matter is a bit more oblique, and is based on the fact that the Silmarillion was originally written in Elvish; by Elves; for Elves; and mostly about Elves. As everyone knows, Elves have a profoundly different outlook than that of Men, at once more intimate and more remote; both ancient and ever-young; living always in two worlds at once.
The very nature of Elves-- their songs;* their bread; their lands-- are subtly baffling to the senses of Men. It therefore seems reasonable that the tales closest to their hearts, that speak most clearly to their inner griefs and joys, will perforce be least comprehensible to Men.
Spoken properly, the language of Elves is such that it conveys factual truth and emotional truth at the same time. An Elf, wishing to convey the magnitude of a world-altering upheaval-- some deeply felt, fundamental shift of nature-- would choose to describe it in the most evocative, poetic manner possible. The world was flat, but is now made round. Another Elf, hearing such a description, will understand not only the emotion but also the intended factual meaning.
But Men are only roughly capable of such subtlety (though a few may learn to approach it, given time). This is why the songs of Elves affect Men so profoundly: they can only sense the meaning incompletely, and it dazzles them.
The Silmarillion tells the truth of the Elves, as the Elves understand it. Translated into the languages of Men, it is merely an approximaton: a shadow-shape, without depth or color. How long must one listen to the Elves, before one can truly understand the nature of the Silmarils, or the origin of the Sun and Moon, or where Earendil and Elwing now dwell? A day, or a lifetime? How does time flow, in the Elvish country?
*“Tra-la-la-lally,” my eye. What was it, Bilbo? Was it the Ring? Was it that concussion at the Battle of Five Armies? Were you smoking every new weed you came across, Bilbo? You smoked Mirkwood-leaves, didn’t you? You smoked the moss growing on the secret door. Fili and Kili couldn’t light a fire because you’d smoked all the tinder.
Terrifel, your problem is with the Venus mobile; my problem is with flying Elwing. Somehow, I can sort of buy the whole star thing, but the idea that now the Power that uses mist and water is suddenly doing major transfiguration. Doesn’t fit.
For a minute I thought I was reading Ovid’s Metamorphoses. It’s not like Ulmo had a history of zapping elves into birds or other animals. It’s just weird.
OK. That we know of. I suppose there’s some weird Teleri cult that the Professor decided not to enlighten the world about.
Well… maybe it’s an ability that the Ainur all have, but tend to use only in direst emergency? All part and parcel of that ‘self-restraint’ ethic that your classier Servants of Iluvatar hew to.
After all, if the Valar were to go around transmogrifying Elves into birds and such willy-nilly, mightn’t that be trespassing on the dominion of Yavanna, who is supposed to be in charge of such critters? She’d be all like: “Hey, where did these extra birds come from? I’m trying to maintain a balanced ecology here!”
On the other hand, the birds are also messengers of Manwe; so that might be intruding on his turf as well. Then again, you’ve got to figure that Elwing was changed into not just any random bird, but a sea-bird-- which would surely be at least partially under Ulmo’s portfolio.
One can see how this sort of thing has the potential to get vastly complicated. It makes sense that they would tend to avoid it if there’s any other possible solution available.
No wonder Radagast is the only wizard with a reputation for shapeshifting. As Yavanna’s agent, he’s got carte blanche to transmogrify anybody into anything. You mess with Radagast, you better get used to hiding nuts for the winter.
Radagast might be the only one who deserves a reputation for shapechanging, but he’s not the only one who has it. Remember Sam begging Gandalf not to turn him into anything unnatural.
Point taken. Although in fairness, it’s actually Frodo who explicitly brings up the subject of shapechanging. Given that Sam is being aggressively manhandled by a huge man in a dress at the time, it’s quite possible that he is referring to something else entirely.
As indeed many fathers do, upon learning that their son has become unnatural. Young Sam was still very insecure and conflicted at this point.
The fact that Sir Ian McKellen is gay always lends that scene an additional layer of humor for me, given the homophobia of Tolkien’s day.
Bonus points, Terrifel, for so aptly using the word “perforce” in your earlier post.
Where did you hear that? That’s a new one on me.
Tim, Tim, Benzedrine!
Hash, boo, Valvoline!
The first time I read LOTR, I thought that Bombadil was out of place; I have since seen the error of my ways. In some ineffable way, he belongs.
And if anybody on this board ever refers to him as “T-Bomb,” the way I have seen in one other place, I shall be forced to do something rash.
RR
I just wanted to run a different idea up the flagpole. Someone once suggested to me that maybe Bilbo wrote the Silmarillion, and this, a history, was a new idea for the Elves, who had never thought of trying to write down an objective view of the past before. Thus their deep respect for Bilbo, who from their point of view created a new art form.
If you mean where did mbh hear that Galadriel walked across the arctic, I assume he’s referring to the crossing of the Helcaraxë. You’ll recall that the magnificent bastard Feanor led the murder of the Teleri and the raping of their ships; after making his way to Middle-Earth, he burned the ships rather than send them back for Fingolfin and his comrades (who included Galadriel). They made their way to Arda’s lesser continent on by going north till they got to ice, proceeding more or less easterly on the ice, and then south.
Thus demonstrating that Galadriel, for all her winsomeness, was 497 times as manly as me.
I’m with you that much of the Silmarillion was not written by Elves (though of course it came from Elvis sources). There’s too much about the House of Hurin & so forth for that to be credible for me. I hadn’t thought of Bilbo’s writing it, but now that I think on it it’s a nice idea.
Bilbo Baggins, takin’ care of business. Thankyou, thankyouverymuch.
You’ll pay for this, Isildur. Oh, how you’ll pay.
ETA: You realize that the name “Elvis” means “all-wise,” no? In that context, what you foolishly imply to be an error can be seen as an especially subtle allusion to the profundity of Master Underhill’s research sources.
No, I’m familiar with that. I was referring to the “trying to turn Celeborn and Galadriel into plaster saints” part.
RR
Tell you what. I’ll forgive you for calling me by the name of the idjit who didn’t toss the One Ring into the volcano when he had the chance, and we’re even.
You know, of course, that the name “Galadriel” (not her birth name, incidentally) literally means “Manly woman”.
Hmmm. The Encyclopedia of Arda says it means “Maiden Crowned by a Radiant Garland”: http://www.glyphweb.com/ARDA/g/galadriel.html
I think it was in Unfinished Tales; I’ll double-check when I get home. But for comparison, “Gilthoniel” is “Star-kindler”, and “Gil-Galad” is “Star-man”, so that leaves the “galad” stem meaning “Man”.
Isildur was neither idjit nor idiot. It was not his fault that he could not throw the ring into the volcano. He had no way to know that its eldritch power was so strong, and constituted in such a way, as to make its hold on him irresistable. I mean, seriously–how was he supposed to have come into this information?
Dude! I thought only Qadgop would get that! You rock! 