I’m looking forward to Top Designer because the judge is Jonathan Adler and I really like his aesthetic. His Soho store is close to where I live and I have some of his pieces.
As for Top Chef, I really really don’t like Marcel, but I like Ilan even less so I’m actually now rooting for Marcel to win. The past few weeks have made Marcel seem a bit more sympathetic but for the first half of the season he was just obnoxious.
Hey, come on. Let’s not bring the ad hominem in here. I disagree with Grossbottom’s opinion of Marcel as well, but please let’s remember that this is just a television show.
Ah yes, let’s examine the anti-Marcel “evidence”:
He’s Arrogant. He’s a specialist, there’s no denying it, and he thinks quite highly of his skill and knowledge, but have we ever seen him overtly assert “I’m better than you; I could teach you a thing or two” to one of the other contestants? No. But we have seen Ilan do that (“Blah blah travel blah blah paprika!”). Quite laughably, we’ve seen that Ilan can mock foams but he can’t actually do them, and would anyone else have known how to pull off that poi with that special agent that Marcel brought? I doubt it (though again, Sam’s quite comfortable slamming Marcel for it).
Also, has Marcel ever actively questioned the taste or judgment of the judges? He’s always stood by his food and defended his choices, but he hasn’t actually accused them of having inadequate palates the way Elia has in interviews several times.
He’s immature and rude. I won’t question that he’s been portrayed as inconsiderate sometimes in the kitchen, but most of the examples we’ve been fed are incidents that appear rather benign that people get all in a tizzy over. His “barking” at Betty. :rolleyes: The moving of the toiletries–which, uncool as that might’ve been, certainly didn’t merit getting yelled in the face and threatened with a beating.
In fact, Marcel has never raised his voice and has almost never shown any real anger (except, you know, after being attacked!). Since Bravo’s edit seems to favor as much anti-Marcel business as possible, we would think they would eat that up. Ilan, Sam, and Frank? Sure, but never Marcel. The biggest argument seems to be that he’s not much of a team player and won’t help the others the way they think he should. Fine, but the reaction to that, the payback invoked for that, is so much more immature, petty, and mean-spirited that it blows his “sins” into sharp relief.
Have we ever seen him do anything mean or overtly hostile? We’ve seen Ilan slam his food in front of dinner guests (could you get more unprofessional?). We’ve seen his sexuality mocked in a way reminiscent of grade school behavior. We’ve seen him actually help Betty only to have her blame him in front of the judges for something that was his fault. Has he ever thrown anyone under the bus? He did question Sam’s leadership skills–but even then, it wasn’t so much that Sam was a bad leader but not much of a leader one way or the other. So points off for having the political savvy of a turnip, but I don’t remember him verbally attacking anyone in remote proportion to how he’s been attacked.
And let’s get to that assault, since this is something that hasn’t been addressed here: that Bravo very clearly edited the attack to spin as favorable a light on the attackers as possible. Want proof? If you watched that episode, you were led to believe that Ilan & Elia shaved their own heads, and then decided to shave Marcel’s–essentially, the spirit of goofiness led to a “prank” that “went too far”. As it turns out, it didn’t happen that way. What happened was that they assaulted Marcel first, and after escaping and holing himself in the bathroom, then they shaved their own heads. So remember all the laughing and horseplay while shaving their heads? That was after the assault. Instead of a spontaneous lark, now their head-shaving plays like a CYA maneuver to diminish their culpability. And I have yet to have seen an interview by Cliff or Ilan (the one we hear encouraging Sam to continue the assault while Cliff has Marcel pinned down) to apologize and acknowledge the assault for what it was. It wasn’t a “joke” or a “prank” or “rough-housing”, it was an unequivocal attack with only the most vile of intentions–to humiliate Marcel and get off on doing it. How’s that for “maturity”? Also, if Bravo was honest, they would’ve included the behind-the-scenes business of Tom wanting to cut all 4 loose, but getting trumped by the producers. Cliff still seems surprised that he got let go because of something he probably considers “fine print”, not sheer ugliness & indecency.
He’s passive-agressive. Just like obscenity, the thing that’s hard to finger but “I know it when I see it.” Marcel has been accused of this, but the only example anyone ever gives is the discount example–and not only is that a judgment call, but it was about keeping the players accountable to the rules! You want passive-agressive? How about Sam stirring the shit with Frank about the toiletries while Marcel is trying to prep his food? How about Ilan persuading Elia to “narc” on Marcel for…what exactly, again? Marcel may not be hostile, but he isn’t afraid of being confrontational when people around him pull that bullshit. Sam interviews about the assault, “The situation got uncomfortable for everyone”. What fucking horseshit! We see in the tape that Sam is laughing, Ilan is goading him to finish what they came in to do, and Elia doing zippola to help her “friend”. In all the interviews I’ve read, it’s always “You had to be there” and “He’s worse than you think”, but the real passive-agressive ones are the clique that seemed to feed off the need to keep that hostility toward Marcel stoked–to the extent that they’ll justify just about anything they do.
He’s got zero social skills. Yup, I’ll give you that completely. It’s probably been a vicious circle–he doesn’t know how to talk to or relate to people (or it’s simply not important to him), so people ostracize him, so he builds up these defense mechanisms, which distance him from others, who he continues to not know how to talk or relate to, etc. I don’t doubt for a second that he probably gets on people’s nerves, that jokes he makes fall flat, that he hasn’t got the filter necessary to speak his mind without it coming out the wrong way, and that all that is secondary anyway to his mission there: proving to be the best. But Stephen and Tiffany were more insufferable the first season, but they were dealing with adults so everyone spoke their mind without resorting to kindergarten theatrics. In real life Marcel may be a full-blown prick, but I’d still rather hang out with him over that douchebag Ilan.
He should’ve been kicked out long ago. I’ll try to find it, but TWoP had a breakdown of Best & Worst showing in both sets of challenges by the top 4, and they were all pretty even except for Sam, who was clearly in the lead in combined wins. So I won’t argue that Sam should’ve been picked before Señor Tool, but there isn’t quite so much evidence on Marcel performing worse than the others with any regularity. Ultimately, this is a hard thing to assess because we can’t actually eat things as viewers, but the only thing I remember the judges calling genuinely inedible (as opposed to “undercooked”) was Sam’s watermelon monstrosity. I’ll also agree that the judges seem bizarrely inconsistent about taking risks/securing execution, but Marcel has consistently shown he’s amongst the best platers there and one who’s more willing to come out of left field with something than most.
I’ve never been a big fan of Marcel’s, but I’ve gradually grown to detest the others for being far guiltier of worse things than what he’s done (not to mention their complete lack of any self-awareness about it all–and you want to call Marcel oblivious!) Marcel’s been put through the wringer and he’s always demonstrated professionalism and civility. He may not be a nice guy, and he may not be the best cook (though I doubt one-trick-pony Ilan is either), but he’s earned my respect in the way he’s handled some pretty unconscionable behavior. Here’s hoping for a victory, so Top Chef doesn’t lose any more credibility than it already has.
I’d just like to state for the record that Broken Wind and Grossbottom are in no way related, opinions or otherwise. 
I haven’t been watching since the beginning - I’ve only caught the last three or four episodes, but count me in as another person who just doesn’t get the Marcel hate. Maybe Project Runway’s spoiled me; after a season with Keith cheating and then lying like a rug, Jeffrey making people’s mothers cry, and Vincent screaming profanities at a hapless PA, I just don’t get the big deal about someone being slightly socially awkward. And the way the other chefs act is just ridiculous. “He snapped at me! He’s arrogant! Let’s shave his head!” It’s not a bloody frat party. They need to grow the hell up.
In other words, Go Marcel!
There’s a difference between saying things politely and being a dick about it.
If somebody asks me, “Do you think we should like keep the freezer door shut?” I’d think they were an idiot. Of course the freezer door should be shut, you see the fucking freezer door standing open, shut the goddamned thing.
Now they could say, “Hey guys, let’s keep the freezer door shut, OK?” and I’d be fine with that. Yeah, I forgot I had it open, thanks for the reminder, shut it or I’ll shut it. That would be both polite and non dick-like.
The thing is, Marcel always takes the dick-like approach. Again, like the checkout stand and the discounts. He could have a) not said a word and let the others take the heat if they did indeed accept discounts, or b) say, “Hey guys, we’re not supposted to take discounts, remember?”. Either one would have worked. But he doesn’t do that. He stands there at the checkout, in just a loud enough sing-song voice for the rest to hear, “I’mmmm not taking any discounts, no discounts for meeeeee, thank you, no discounts herrrrrrre.”, and that’s what would drive me crazy.
Ilan has a pot on every burner. Normal person needing burner: “Hey man, think I could get in on one of those burners?”. Not Marcel. Normal person planning menu: “Ok, you do this, I’ll do that, she’ll do something else”. Marcel: “You’re doing that, so I’ll do that, too”.
Now I’m not saying that should get you physically assaulted, but after a few weeks of that shit, I’d be getting pretty tired of it. And the other contestants had to endure a LOT more than just 1 hour a week. I think mhendo summed up my feelings as well.
Well yeah. The last few episodes haven’t shown Marcel doing anything that bad and everyone else really went overboard in their hate for him. But the earlier episodes all showed Marcel just being really annoying. I don’t remember any of the things he did but from the first episode there was something about him that really turned me off, I don’t know what.
As for the lack of Marcel’s social skills, his home clip showed people who cared about him. We didn’t get much of that for the others.
Funny, you know what I do when pompous little pricks talk down to me at my job? I laugh at them. Unless, of course, I feel threatened by them.
Betty and led the charge on the Marcel hateration because, I believe, she was the most threatened by the young, extremely talented guy who didn’t respond to her cutesy flirtatious bullshit.
Ilan hated Marcel from the first moment they met, according to Michael in his post-elimination interview with Chow Magazine. I think they are simply polar opposites in personality, cooking philosophies, lifestyles, probably even politics and grooming. Ilan is also a shit-stirrer, and has been trash talking Marcel to the other contestants.
Sam is an alpha male and has a temper. I think he just responded to Marcel’s challenging him in the store with a shoutdown and probably shook it off within an hour or two. I don’t think he ever felt serious threatened talent-wise by him. I think his personal dislike of Marcel caused him to just proverbially “look the other way” while the assault was happening.
Cliff is an alpha male and he’s stupider than Sam, or was drunker. I think he also felt more threatened at that point, and knew he was in a weaker position with the dishes he had offered. He’s also got the jock past, and I honestly believe he thinks he was just rough-housing or whatever. He’s in denial that he was expressing hostility towards Marcel.
Elia is an immature hypocrite. She was just fine with Marcel until it started to look like he might actually be a threat to her. Then I think her pride got hurt because she actually trained him at one point. That’s why she was passive when he was being hazed, and has since convinced herself that it wasn’t a big deal and that Marcel deserved it. (Find the transcript of her Chow Magazine interview… she’s freaking nuts. She accuses Marcel of hacking an online poll to make himself look more popular.)
Wow, lisacurl, you nailed everyone to a tee, especially Betty. She seems like the person who loves being adored, with hearts and flowers and BFFF!!! That Marcel wouldn’t warm to any of that probably drove her crazy. He didn’t hate her, he just didn’t care, but that’s enough to send her over the edge.
Yeah, and all the unfounded rumor-mongering going on (“He hacked this! He smuggled that!”). People never obssess about someone so much if they didn’t feel threatened by him in some way (his skills, his popularity, etc.).
Sam’s a diabetic, so he was probably the only sober one during the assault and afterwards.
You still wake up sometimes, don’t you? You wake up in the dark and hear the tearing of the underwear. And you think if you save poor Marcel, you could make them stop, don’t you? You think if Marcel wins, you won’t wake up in the dark ever again to that awful tearing of the undies.
I do wish we could chat longer, but… I’m having an old friend for dinner. Bye.
Why? I really don’t understand why that’s dickish. It’s polite, it’s non-confrontational, it’s reasonable.
Didn’t he say there had been a pattern of it? I’m sure he did just close it himself the first 30 times before he finally (politely) asked them to start closing the door.
I can’t see a shred of semantic difference between this statement and the first one.
People keep saying that but they can never name an example that makes any sense.
Why? Just because it’s eccentric and weird? How is it dickish?
Again, I see nothing dickish here. The dick was Ilan for taking up all the burners.
N one can name anything Marcel said or did which hurt anyone else, insulted anyone else, was dishonest, or was anything but a little bit weird or maybe socially unaware. The others, by contrast, acted like monumental cocksuckers. They cheated, they lied, they threatened and carried out physical asaults, they connived, they complained like huge pussies over nothing. Yet Marcel is weird so he’s the dick. I am really puzzled by this perception. I just don’t see what some others see.
Wow, that is a little freaky. Add that to the smearing chocolate all over her face and the head shaving and it does sound a little nuts.
Ok, this cracked me up.
It’s the “awful tearing of the undies” that makes it art.
No. He’s too chicken to actually confront anyone. That’s what passive-aggressive is all about. He sabotages through cowardice, low self-esteem, and internal shame.
How has he ever sabotaged anybody?
For god’s sake, Liberal, come up with an example, or you’re just projecting your own neurosis onto a reality show character.
As I’ve cited, he isn’t too chicken to confront anyone. He’s just not a belligerent asshole about it.
I’d love a citation for “sabotage” though. Also, for “cowardice”. You’ve been claiming these again and again.
I’ve covered all this at length. (As have the rest of you.) Just read examples I’ve already given.
Let’s look at the list of common Passive Aggresive behaviors and see how many apply to Marcel:
There are certain behaviors that help identify passive-aggressive behavior.
Ambiguity - Nope
**Avoiding responsibility by claiming forgetfulness ** - Nope
Blaming others - Nope
Chronic lateness and forgetfulness - Nope
Complaining - Nope, Ilan yes
Does not express hostility or anger openly - Possible, although I think he just doesn’t rise to the bait
Fear of authority - Nope
Fear of competition - Nope, I would say yes for Ilan
Fear of dependency - Yes
Fear of intimacy - On the show, yes, although not so sure in real life
Fosters chaos - Nope
Intentional inefficiency - Nope
Making excuses and lying - Nope, Ilan yes
Obstructionism- Nope
Procrastination - Nope
Resentment - Yes, but with good reason I would argue
Resists suggestions from others - Nope
Sarcasm - Nope, Ilan yes
Sullenness - Nope
A passive-aggressive may not have all of these behaviours, and may have other non-passive-aggressive traits.
So I see just as many passive-aggresive bahviors in Ilan as Marcel and I think hardly enough, especially given the setting, to say either is passive aggresive.