[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
How about the fact that of the nine or so main characters, four or five of which have no fighting skills at all, all of them are able to surivive several large scale battles without dying?
[/QUOTE]
That’s from the book. Good that you included the “or so,” though, what with Boromir and all.
[QUOTE=Frylock]
All the slow-motion.
Hobbits jumping on the bed. (Weren’t they pillowfighting too?)
[/QUOTE]
The reunion scene was really bad. Denethor the Human Torch also bothered me, but I think the top two were as follows:
I can’t believe I’m the first to mention this:
Sam’s ghastly “Folk in them stories, they kept goin’” speech at the end of TTT. Possibly the least inspiring moment I’ve ever seen in a movie. Knowing it’s coming casts a pall over the last third of the movie for me.
Others, that bother me less:
**Comic Relief Gimli
“If you want him, come and claim him!”**—that smacked of something filmed expressly to put in the trailer
**The over-literalization of the Gollum/Smeagol divide
The over-literalization of “the eye of Sauron”**
Other than that, I really enjoyed the movies. I’ve so far resisted going back to the books to reread them; I last read them in junior high, and I have a feeling I’ve moved on too much to enjoy them in the same way any more.
[QUOTE=Nonsuch]
I can’t believe I’m the first to mention this:
Sam’s ghastly “Folk in them stories, they kept goin’” speech at the end of TTT. Possibly the least inspiring moment I’ve ever seen in a movie. Knowing it’s coming casts a pall over the last third of the movie for me.
[/QUOTE]
Are you joking? That was an awesom speach. most of the other things here I agree sucked, but this was a great point!
Things which bugged me, all of which have to do with the movie experience and NOT
vis a vis how well (or badly) they matched the book:
Treebeard’s Ignorance, both the intial decision and his general obtuseness. Lord
this bugs me more than anything else, and totally porks the character (tho the
subsequent destruction of the environs of Orthanc was fun…). And we also missed
a wonderful visual when Treebeard pours the Ent Draught and Pippin likens it to
a bunch of stars spilling out of the heavens. First time I read that (I only read
the books a year before the first movie) I KNEW it would be incredible to show on
the screen-yet even in the EE nothing.
The Deux ex Machina of the Army of the Dead-'nuff said.
Denethor. Didn’t bug me so much on the first few viewings, but it does now. And
why must Shadowfax knock him back into the fire!?? Can’t imagine they whys and
wherefores of that at all…
The Eye, and in particular what someone in another board likened to a Wile E.
Coyote double taken when his tower starts to fall over-and no pleading shadow
dissipating on the wind? Big missed opportunity.
The general way the pace picked up much too quickly as movies 2 and 3 went
on. The problem, unlike in FOTR, is that there were several plot lines which had
to be followed concurrently, and to get the movie in under budget and under time
PJ had to cut corners and keep things moving. Problem is that there were precious
(heh) few moments in movies 2 & 3 which gave the narrative a little breathing
space-it’s all a pell-mell rush towards the next plot point. A lot of the magic of
the first film was thus lost in the next two, with notable exceptions (Arwen’s fate in
TTT, the Beacons in ROTK).
Things which bugged other people but which didn’t bug me (worked in terms of
the movie experience):
Arwen. She was part of two of the best scenes of the entire trilogy (the Fate
mentioned above and the Son vision in #3). Didn’t mind Glorfindel being replaced,
tho having him as a cameo later would have been cool. But yes Elrond being an
asshole probably is #6 on my bad list tho…
Faramir. I think the actor played the role a BIT too hard at the beginning, but
as opposed to the Paragon of Virtue we had in the books, this Faramir is reacting
realistically to the events around him: his brother is dead, perhaps because of
something these two hobbits did; his dad is going nuts and he thinks he can
redeem himself in his father’s eyes AND bring dad back from the brink in one
fell swoop; and his entire country is threatened with being overrun. He is NOT
having a good month, but to have this character show up all cheery-like and
carefree would have been jarring if not unintentionally humorous (“Is this guy
completely obtuse or something-he’s going to let them go just like that?”). Later
he did show his quality and did something his brother would have been incapable
of.
Merry & Pippen. They certainly showed their quality too as the trilogy went on.
PJ did give Gimli a few too many painfully giggle moments tho and I agree about
that, tho it doesn’t bug me all that much.
Galadriel’s vision. I think Ms. Kate certainly did do some good acting here-when
she (through sheer painful force of will you sense) cuts off the vision she certainly
LOOKS diminished for a moment before regaining her composure.
Legolas’ various stunts (except for the shield surfing which WAS over the top):
Imagine if you will a highly gifted athlete, like Barry Bonds or Tiger Woods, but who
unlike a human would NOT age and see his skills diminish. Think then of what
he would be capable of after a few centuries’ worth of additional experience-
he would have honed his craft to such a high degree it would elicit shock and
disbelief to those accustomed to human aging patterns and time scales. I would
expect such a character then to do some amazing things which would seem
almost miraculous-it would be unrealistic for him NOT to.
The only part I thought was particularly cheap was when the crew was all in the big underground room, surrounded, obviously about to die. And then a big fire elemental pops up that scares away all the things that were about to kill them, and proceeds to run at a breathtaking two feet per minute to catch them.
Cheeeeeeap. And I suspect direct from the book.
I, too, was disappointed in the Ents. I was really looking forward to the Entmoot and the March of the Ents, when they’re singing and drumming and gearing up to kick some serious Wizard ass, and instead PJ gave me senile tree-Yodas.
I was hoping we’d see more of the Faramir/Eowyn relationship, too. But overall, they’re still 3 of my favorite movies, and I still cry at the end of RotK.
I was upset with how they missed Gollum’s repentance on the Endless Stair. In the book, it’s a very poignant moment. Gollum has just returned from making arrangements with Shelob, sees Frodo sleeping and remembers that he, too, was a hobbit. He gently caresses Frodo, almost as if he may change his mind. Then Sam wakes up and starts accusing Gollum of “sneaking”
I hated the “nervous system” in the Extended TTT. No one in Middle Earth would talk like that.
Whenever I see the Eye of Sauron falling with his tower, I imagine him yelling “Crap, oh CRAP! CRAP!”
Remind me of this, please?
-FrL-
Let me preface by saying that I own and enjoy the movies – I’ve watched them at least as many times as I read the books. The movies are loosely based on the books, and have provided wonderful visuals and voice characterizations for subsequent readings of the books.
That said, there are many time when the scene in the book is superior to the scene in the movie, and would, in my mind, have taken no more time or effort to film than what was actually presented.
Mines of Moria. Read the scene in the book – it’s better than the movie by a long shot. The flight down the stairs in the dark would have been difficult to film, but Sting could have lit the scene effectively.
Flaming Denethor’s plunge. Totally misses the Palantir connection, and is just silly.
Lighting the torches for aid. Not realistic in any way, but good eye candy.
The shire, unchanged. I know – the movie’s too long already, but think of the visual spectacle.
Faramir. No sunset through the curtain of water? No trail of smoke giving the hobbits away? Taking the ring to Osgiliath is just unforgivable. Ruins the movie for me every time.
The scale of this book is too vast to do justice to in just a few movies. Firstly, it’s not three books – it’s six books in three volumes. Each of the six books could be done as a movie, although I think that would still require leaving out too much. Someday, perhaps sooner than we think, computer technology will take the visuals and vocals we already have and expand them to the other scenes. We could also correct the poorly executed scenes.
[QUOTE=Frylock]
Remind me of this, please?
[/QUOTE]
During the Helm’s Deep clean up, Gimli is sitting on a (dead?) Uruk-hai and Legolas wanders by and deposits and arrow into it, narrowly missing Gimli’s nuts. “It was still moving.”
“It was moving becuse it’s got my axe embedded in its nervous system”
(VERY rough quotations, but you get the idea.)
**Gimli ** was pretty funny, but I agree that if he’d been a hardass it would have done more to believeify his role as a formidable opponent. I always had the idea that the best, most competent representatives of the major races were in the fellowship. If Jackson’s Gimli was the best the dwarves could dig up, then the dwarves must have declined sharply from the days when Thorin Oakenshield was doing his thing–now that’s a dwarf I’d hate to cross.
The nasty Orc General in ROTK bugged.
The Mouth of Sauron was a niftily-done critter, but a little too smug for an add-in.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Aragorn summon the dead army alone, without his (useless inthis case) little buddies tagging along? I seem to recall that being a point of significant change in his character in the book, but it has been awhile.
Dooku as Saruman. He did a good job with the role, don’t get me wrong, but he brought Star Wars into LOTR and I really didn’t like it there.
It was hard to come up with 5 things–I’m very forgiving and I LOVED this series of flicks.
** Never mind that Clones came out after FOTR I saw Clones before LOTR. Still, the thought of Saruman orchestrating an intergalactic plot…well, I guess that does work.
[QUOTE=Danalan]
[/quote]
I thought they did have this in the movie.
-FrL-
Orcs who form by pike companies, but then have no idea how to deploy them against cavalry: whenever the Rohirrim charge, I keep yelling at the screen “Form square! First two ranks ready archers - two volleys, then deploy pikes! Wait for my command…” That’d see the strawheads’ pell-mell charge scattered all over the Pellennor Fields.
Riders of Rohan, if you must charge infantry squares on horseback, spread out your cavalry, and don’t close up until you reach their lines: you’ll avoid getting mown down by arrows, and the weight of horses and riders - probably dead horse and riders - crashing into a pike square might just break it.
[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya]
Dooku as Saruman. He did a good job with the role, don’t get me wrong, but he brought Star Wars into LOTR and I really didn’t like it there.
[/QUOTE]
The man has been in something like 250 movies and played Dracula, Rasputin, Fu Manchu, Scaramanga and Lord Summerisle, and you have the nerve to call him Dooku? The stupidest character name he’s had in any of those 250 movies, slightly worse than “Dr. Catheter” in Gremlins 2? 
From what I’ve read, he probably knows more about LOTR than everybody else in the cast did, put together. It’s an unfortunate coincidence that he was in similar roles in both movies at the same time, but I thought he rocked the house as Saruman.
[QUOTE=Marley23]
I thought he rocked the house as Saruman.
[/QUOTE]
I’m a Cretin, I know. Only ever recall seeing him in these 2 roles though. And yes, when he hit the screen as Saruman, it was like Jackson had plucked the image, voice and mannerism right from my own mind. He was a very good Saruman–surely because he is such a Tolkein freak.
And I’m glad Jackson decided not publish the scenes with Tom Cruise playing Bombadil.
For those who complain about nitpicking fans, and think we must hate the movies: Stop and think, when was the last time you saw a thread here nitpicking Plan 9 from Outer Space or Manos, the Hands of Fate? We don’t nitpick a movie (or other entertainment) because we hate it, we nitpick a work because we like it. Nitpicking is part of how we enjoy a work of art.
My list:
1: Faramir. In the books, he provided a clear contrast to Boromir. Boromir was power-mad, and would do anything to save his homeland. Faramir, though, recognized that some prices were too great, and some things (like keeping his word) were more important. I think at some level he may have regretted his statement that “Not if I found this thing lying by the wayside would I take it”, but he wouldn’t have considered reneging.
2: Aragorn being presumed dead. There was already a lot of material from the book which had to be cut; what’s the sense in adding something else?
3: Narsil. In the books, Narsil/Anduril is the only sword Aragorn ever uses, so it’s highly significant when it’s re-forged. In the meantime, you’ve got this guy who’s clearly a badass, carrying around a broken sword with him. Very dramatic. The way the movie handled it, though, with it kept at Rivendell, and not showing up until the end, was very anticlimactic.
4: Galadriel’s freak-out scene. The acting was fine, but the special effects weren’t. It would have worked a lot better with something more subtle, perhaps similar to Gandalf’s “Do not take me for a conjurer of cheap tricks”.
5: The Watcher in the Water. This is one case where less is more. It would have been a lot scarier if they had resisted the temptation to show off their special effects, and shown us only a few menacing tentacles.
I’m maybe a bit biased here against the first movie, since I’ve only seen the other two once each (not enough of a grounding for proper nitpicking).
That said, some things I didn’t mind:
1: Gimli as comic relief. Does nobody else remember the orc-counting contest at Helm’s Deep? Legolas and Gimli were already firmly comic relief (though no less valorous) in the book. Perhaps one can criticize Legolas not getting his share of the comedy in the movies, but that’s a separate crticism.
2: The Army of the Dead. In the movie, they were invincible. In the books, it wasn’t even known if they could be harmed, since their fear was such that no one even tried to stand up to them. If anything, they were weakened in the movie.
3: The Scouring of the Shire, lack thereof. Yes, I would have loved to have seen it, too. But this, I think, was a justified and necessary change. They had to cut things for the movie, and the Scouring, like Bombadil, was something they could cut out relatively cleanly, leaving more room for other things.
4: Arwen. She is, after all, an important character, and it makes sense to give her scenes like the Fords. A recognizable cameo by Glorfindel would have been nice, but to give him a big scene like that would have left the audience scratching their heads about who this fellow was supposed to be, and why he doesn’t show up later.
[QUOTE=RikWriter]
Ditto.
Meh. It’s all good. Some parts could have been done better. A lot better. Some day they will be. JRRT’s works will be interpreted by many more actors, directors, and artists as the years go by. One day we’ll have a version for the holodeck, and people will complain that the barrow downs weren’t damp enough.
Oh. And Elves out of Helm’s Deep! of course. 
No complaints here, so I probably shouldn’t even be posting. The only scene where I went “WTF?” was when Gandalf was leading a charge down a hill – I think it was in The Two Towers, the one where he told Aragorn to look for him in three days at dawn or something.
Anyway, it looked like that hill was about 90 degrees (or however many degrees really steep would be), and I couldn’t believe the horses and riders didn’t go ass over teakettle.