That doesn’t settle a thing. It’s beyond me why you would think it’s somehow definitive.
The 250 lb man by a very long shot. He could quite easily kill her with one well-aimed blow.
I don’t think my #1 guy, the couch potato, could do that. Numbers #3 and #4 might have a shot at killing blow, maybe even no. #2.
Ya got me wondering if that’s really possible, in a situation where the trained female fighter sees the punch coming. A one-punch kill? I dunno…
I’m not saying a killing blow can be struck intentionally. But a one-blow death has happened in more than a few official boxing matches, and in those matches opponents are usually matched in size and strength almost exactly.
While not equivalent by any means, in terms of weight, our 250 lb vs 140 lb opponents can be compared to a 140 lb adult vs a 30 lb child. It’s quite easy for a grown man of that size to kill a young child by a blow to the head or neck. I don’t think any amount of skill or speed can come close to compensating such a massive size difference.
Okay, interesting. I hadn’t heard about the “one-blow death” boxing matches.
I’m surprised how many people underestimate female martial artists. (Or how many did in 2006 at least!)
Link to judo/MMA/UFC champ Rhonda Rousey gently demonstrating a throw and armbar on a big guy. I see fights 1 and 2 looking pretty much just like that, but faster. Dumb fat guy with a broken arm. It would almost look like that choreographed (aikido?) video linked above. Fight 3, I’ll give 50-50. She might outmaneuver him into various submissions/broken limbs. He might just grab and crush her like the police videos somebody mentioned. Fight 4, the guy wins spectacularly. The worst heavyweight in the UFC would beat Rousey with ease.
Then why can’t he break a wooden board?
Of course, many 250 pound men can break a wooden board, but few can do it with either hand and many can’t do it at all without breaking their fist.
You can talk about who is bigger and stronger all you want, but what matters in striking is how much force impacts the object. The female can impart more force despite her lesser strength, and she can do it over and over.
The couch potato would lose almost certainly, unless he got pretty damn lucky. The athlete would have a better chance, but would still probably lose. I wish I could find the video I’m looking for, but there’s a very accomplished Japanese female MMA fighter who is absolutely incredible with armbars. I’ve seen her hit flying armbars where she jumps and inverts herself, hanging off her opponents’ arms, and they tap out before she even hits the ground. It’s similar to this video, but she’s usually faster and cleaner than that.
Now, an athlete might get in some lucky blows, but a martial artist of the level OP describes would certainly have the advantage against someone who has no idea what he’s doing. She can most likely cover up enough to get into position on someone who doesn’t know how to throw punches or have a proper fighting stance. Someone who’s not trained to fight isn’t going to be doing much after his arm’s broken or dislocated, and if you don’t think a woman’s 140 body can put enough pressure to pop the elbow of someone unprepared for it, you haven’t seen a proper armbar.
The third guy definitely has an advantage, and is probably going to win. Someone who’s used to trading punches to the face isn’t going to open himself up very easily, so unless she can catch him off balance, she’s in trouble. And the last one there’s no contest really. Weight is a huge advantage when the skills are even close to matched. I remember Jet Li talking in an interview about doing whatever movie that was where he fought the huge MMA guys, and saying that were it real he’d probably get taken apart. And he’s pretty quick, and certainly extremely accomplished himself.
I’m not an expert on any of this, but I do have one comment. ISTM that people are focusing too much on technique vs. strength and ignoring the tremendous variation in natural talent that exists, in terms of reflexes, coordination, stamina, quickness etc. (plus strength per pound of body weight).
I’m as skeptical of the advantages of martial arts techniques as the next guy, but there’s a reason you don’t see heavyweight boxing dominated by 350 pounders, who would have some of the supposed size/strength advantages that people here are discussing. And the same goes for any other field.
Point being, that at the elite levels of any athletic field, you’re going to be dealing with people who have tremendous natural athletic ability. Such people are very rare, and you’ll find much more of them among the much larger population of 250 pounders than among the much smaller population of 350 pounders. And a 250 pound gifted athlete is going to beat a 350 average guy, if both train the same.
So if you’re talking about a woman who is an elite-level MA master, you can’t think of the equation as “average woman + tremendous MA technique versus big guy”. It’s “superwoman + tremendous MA technique versus big guy”.
So I would say the woman wins #1 the vast majority of the time, and #2 most of the time. #3 & #4 go to the guys.
A good example of this was Pros vs. Joes, where Arturo Gatti, one of the all time great boxers, went up against guys much larger than himself who were athletic, strong, but not professional boxers. They wore headgear. He didn’t. He wasn’t even going all out and he was dominating these larger men, legitimate athletes in their own right, as if they were children. In a real fight he would KO any of them in 30 seconds.
Gatti is not a woman of course, but he does average about 140 pounds, so he’s a small guy. I outweigh him by 80, with a 6 inch height advantage. I don’t think I can beat him.
Same goes for Laila Ali or that MMA chick that’s famous yet I can’t remember her name. Size and strength are important, but skill can be a force multiplier.
A person who doesn’t know how to use his strength will fail against someone who does more often than not. I’m pretty sure that I would lose to a top notch female fighter, and I happen to be 6’4" 250 lbs. A 120 lb woman can break the arm of the biggest, strongest man in the world if he doesn’t know how to avoid it.
Of course, top notch fighters are like one in a million. Even against the girl who has done martial arts all her life but hasn’t actually ever fought anyone, I’d give the advantage to the big man, even if he’s a couch potato.
People in this thread have cited any number of examples of smaller top ranked fighters destroying larger people.
And the counter-argument of “why are there weight classes if size doesn’t matter?” fails for the reason given above. If you are comparing top athletes in the world at different weight classes, you are comparing the people who are in the top 0.000001% in thew world in terms of coordination, stamina, reflexes, strength (per pound) etc. against each other, and with these roughly canceled out, strength becomes the deciding factor. But if you compare the top 0.000001% against the top 10% in the world, then strength has a lot more to overcome and is not necessarily going to prevail.
But the differences between a trained 140 lb. woman, and a trained 140 lb. man, are enormous. Therefore it is very problematic to use what a trained smaller man can do against a larger untrained man as an indication of what a trained smaller woman can do against an untrained larger man. I am not saying she is doomed no matter what - there are no guarantees in fighting. But she is at a very serious disadvantage in the last two scenarios.
I’ve been on the long end of this kind of a match-up in sparring. I was nowhere nearly 110 lbs. larger - more like 30-40. And the skill disparity was probably roughly what it would be in scenario #3. I was considerably stronger in the upper body than even national champion-level women. And that makes a big difference.
Regards,
Shodan
Unless your name is Edson Barboza Jr., of course; then feel free to go for it.
And to add to the general thread, the person who has the “advantage” in any situation, is usually the more aware and disciplined one. In sanctioned competition, this can mean a few things, but in the street, it’s usually a sucker punch.
If the person, or a woman in this case, knows what they’re doing and has the opportunity to execute, I don’t think it’s much of a question (especially since being big doesn’t necessarily mean it’s functional strength or weight). Most people don’t know how to defend against proper joints locks and certainly don’t respond well to the shock of something unexpected happening.
If the fight happens within a code boxing/mma/judo, the woman would usually win #1 and maybe #2 on a good day. #3 and #4 always the guy.
No-code, thunderdome-style, two-enter-one-goes-out the man always wins, always.
I think the mindset of each would determine who wins. It doesn’t matter if he or she ‘can do x’ if they are unwilling.
As a Marine Infantryman in the early 90’s LINE training taught that who does the mostest the firstest usually wins. Whoever is willing to do the most damage first, or the equivalent of a sucker punch in a fight, is usually going to win.
In a fight between someone who is just fighting and someone who is going for blood, I’d pick the person looking to end it quickest no matter the cost.
Yeah, that’s something I’ve noticed in real life fights, they usually don’t involve two people equally committed to the fight.
Some idiot put a bear in a lion’s cage at a zoo just to see who would win the resulting smackdown, then posted it on the internet. It wasn’t very interesting. The bear knew it was in someone else’s territory and it didn’t want to be there anyway, so it fought back only sporadically.
People often wonder whether this girl would beat this guy in a real fight, or whether this animal would beat this animal, or this guy with a spear vs. that guy with a sword, but in real life fights are never fair. That’s why competition probably settles these questions better than real life.
I still don’t know why so may are calling a 6’4" 250 lb guy as a fat slob, one ounce away from a beached whale. BMI 30 is not blob.
Presuming all matches are no holds barred and the contestants actively dislike each other to the point that no one is interested in fighting fair.
1 and 2 are going to get kicked in the head and go down like sacks of potatoes.
3 get’s about 40% odds. Maybe 50.
4 get’s 90%.
This big fight thread’s been going for 9 years now, I’d be surprised if it’s not pretty winded by at this point. Can a small but trained mod take it out with a roundhouse to the head or will the size of the thread prevail?