Yup. There is just no way to simulate in a dojo what it feels like to get an elbow to the nose followed by a headbutt. As I said, watch those UFC guys and tell me what their “style” is. Chuck Liddell is an accomplished wrestler and kickboxer, but you rarely see him use those skills. He’s all about hurting his opponent early and often. And he’s maybe 6 feet 205 lbs. There’s not a woman in the world who could beat him in a fight. Or last for more than a minute or so.
Wow! This has been a fun and interesting thread, and it is only a few hours old! Thanks for all the replies!
I have to admit that one of my main reasons for asking this question was my memories of Jennifer Garner and her many fight scenes in Alias, where she often faced rather large, menacing male opponents and usually managed to beat them. I did not think it was very realistic! But it was fun to watch!
Another vote that a street fighter who has won many brawls if far more dangerous than a martial artist of any skill level, unless that martial artist is also a street brawler. Anyone who wins fights when all the rules are off, is a dangerous fighter.
Wait, are you saying a 130 lb male is going to be a better fighter than a 130 lb female with similar skills and training? If so, how exactly? Is there a secret penis-strike technique that I’ve never heard of? Do ovaries make someone more vulnerable? (I kind of thought it was the opposite…)
OK, to be fair, women are on average going to have slightly more body fat, even with similar fitness levels, so we have to give the female a small bump in weight to get to even muscle weights, but how is say a 138 lb female inferior to a 130lb male of similar build, training, and aptitude?
Trunk, feel free to chime in too, as you’ve made similar statements.
The circularness of this statement is just amazing.
Does Krav Maga count as a possible style the woman is a master of? Wouldn’t that style be effective against streetfighting?
What is streetfighting anyway? The kinds of fights you see outside bars at 1am or something else?
The way I like to think of martial arts ability is as a “Self Defense” bell curve distribution. With no training, or experience, everyone falls somewhere on the curve, mostly based on weight and strength (which initially put women on the lower end of the ability curve from men).
Training and experience greatly shift your placement on the curve, so someone initially that could defend themself against only 10% of the population in general, after a couple years of training, can now easily defend themself against 75% of the population successfully.
Obviously, you can never hit 100%, but women can definitely shift themselves a few sigmas along the curve with proper training. And that is what makes MA beneficial. Prior to my studying, if attacked by a thug I would only be able to defend myself against 10% of attackers, if at all. Now, I guarantee that I could against 90% of attackers…but there will always be a substantial segment tougher and nastier than I.
Women should never expect or aim for the goal of beating King Kong Bundy in a cage match. It isn’t realistic. What is realistic is that they can protect themselves against 95% of the untrained or unprepared male aggressors that they are most likely to face.
Is he not rushing straight into a foot sweep takedown? I’m imagining the guy running at her from 15 ft away or so. I always thought rushing a martial artist like that would be an automatic takedown for the rushee :shrug:
You’ve been hanging in the dojo too long, old bean. 
See They Live for an excellent street fight.
Roughly defined, it’s “No holds barred, no rules, beat the other guy until he’s at least unconcious, anything goes: weapons, hair pulling, slamming the head against the concrete, anything as long as you win” fighting.
Ok, I’m thinking top-notch to mean at least instructor level, so that’s 2nd degree black belt (at least for my TKD school). FTR, I was a TKD instructor, placed 3rd in intercollegiate championships in TX, and I have a black belt in judo. “Top notch” to me is someone who fights at the, or qualifies for, the olympics or pan am games (doesn’t necessarily win, but will make it to the qualifiers). To do this in more than one discipline is very, very difficult, but possible. Top notch is also someone who places in at least one discipline. Good grappling to me, is someone who makes it to some sort of national championships in wrestling or judo. For a girl to do this, it would most likely be judo, and she would be very, very, good. To place in TKD and Judo would be a near impossibility for either sex.
This guy would be tired in about 2 mins. 6’4" means that he is big and fat. He does something active, what, once a week? This is a guy who gets tired shadow boxing. A quick shot to the leg, or multiples, would put this person down in a hurry. After that, it’s mount that person on the back and start pounding away. Advantage: girl.
This person would probably freak out at the speed at which punches and kicks are coming in. Since he doesn’t know how to fight, he won’t grapple, and will not realize to close distance. This guy loses, but not as fast or as easily as out of shape dude. It also depends on what kind of shape he is in. Overall shape and well-balanced? It might be a close fight, but it’s the girl’s to lose. Is he just musculur? Musculur people often have poor cardio and equally poor balance. A girl trained in multiple disciplines will be able to put that guy on the floor, where he will freak out even more. When this happens (not if), he will probably role to his stomach and the girl will wail away at the back of his head. Advantage: girl
In my experience, street brawlers do not go to the ground very well or at all. A street brawler is someone who knows how to keep the fight upright and will easily trade punches. He is naturally balanced and doesn’t mind pain. This fight is the guy’s to lose. Overall, though, it’s pretty close. It’s doubtful that he will be outpunched/counter-punched, as his size allows him to asorb blows. Being a street fighter, he knows how to trade blows, and it will be in his favor. The girl has too many chances to make mistakes, and each one will make her pay dearly. She will have to stay away while he tires himself out, and focus all her energy on one spot. Oh, and IME, street brawlers don’t know how to deal with kicks (they are just stand up punchers). Still a veteran will give a journey-man boxer of equal size a run for his money. Advantage: guy.
No bones about it, the guy wins. The girl will have to go for a single strike and hope to take the guy’s foot or shin out. She won’t last on a trade, and she won’t be able to pick and peck away at him like she would an in-shape guy. The guy can be sloppy but recover to grapple or trade blows. The girl will have to be very, very lucky. Advantage: guy.
Hmm, I distinctly remeber that, ‘Ask the football hooligan’ thread.
By football, I mean the regular soccer louts that arrange to meet other gangs of hooligans for the pleasure of smashing each other to bits.
His experience of those he came across that attempted to use martial arts skills, was simple, they wetn down, and the only ones that had any real success were those that pretty much threw out all the moves, and got on with head butting, kicking, biting, knees and elbow smashes.
If your street brawler is one of these types, little miss dainty is just going to be a stain on the floor.
You have to remember for these people fighting is a hobby, and getting a number of stitches, perhaps a broken limb is part of the game.
Out of curiosity (and I’m really not trying to start any kind of shit here) would any of the posters here change their post if the word “woman” were removed from the scenario?
Would any of you feel any different if the opponent were a male of the same dimensions?
Because, among other things, he is going to be roughly twice as strong in the upper body as she is.
I am assuming in all these situations, the guy is enraged and trying to hurt or kill the woman.
Scenario #1- Ms. Lee has a fighting chance.
Scenario # 2 - Much less chance.
Scenarios #3-4 - Virtually no chance whatever of “defeating” him, a variable chance of escaping without serious injury if she makes escape her primary objective, as she should.
I’ve been involved in the martial arts (judo, jujitsu, tae kwon do, wing tsun, a little shotokan) since I was eleven years old. I’ve taught woman’s self-defense, sparred against women of varying sizes (including two national champions), and competed at levels up to national (in judo).
Real life is not like the movies. The good guys do not win all the time.
Regards,
Shodan
Several people have done just that, and indicated that it would change their opinion if a diminutive man were in the fight rather than an average woman. I’m still waiting to hear from the people who feel men have, pound per pound, a flat-out advantage over women: do they really feel that a man, 5’7", 140#, has an across-the-board advantage over a woman with the same height & weight?
I’m not in that camp, by the way.
In 2001 they did something close to this on German TV. The untrained entertainer Stefan Raab challenged female super flyweight box champion Regina Halmich to a shortened show fight. She beat him up without much effort.
Part of the fight
(“Boxen gegen Regina Halmich”)
And they say private broadcasting never brought us any quality programming…
Mass is always going to be an advantage, always, always, always, but it’s not the only advantage. A small person with good technique can be vicious, and I’d much rather fight a larger person that didn’t know what they were doing. I’ve trained with bodybuilders doing their first day of boxing and it was odd to watch, because they just hadn’t learned how to put that mass into their punches effectively yet; about every 20th or 30th punch they’d throw with good technique by accident with a loud WHOP!, but they couldn’t do it consistently yet. Good technique takes time. Unless you train to learn how to effectively transfer your mass and strength into your punches and kicks and develop the muscular and aerobic stamina to last more for more than thirty seconds of wild swings, you’re like a car with a 500 horsepower engine, 1/8th tank of gas, and no transmission.
So, who would you rather fight, the 6’4" 250 pound bodybuilder who has never been in the ring, or 135 pound champion Roberto “Hands of Stone” Duran? Little fighters can be absolutely vicious. I sparred with an experienced female boxer when I was first starting out, I was about 210 and in good shape and she was probably about 140. I was larger, stronger, and had a longer reach, but I don’t mind admitting that she schooled me pretty well.
For an example on the far end of the spectrum ake five time world champion kickboxer Kathy Long. There’s a story (admittedly apocryphal) that floated around a while about how she put a male assailant who jumped her while jogging into the hospital. It may or may not be true, but my kickboxing trainer (an IKF champion himself) had a good long laugh at the thought that of all the women in the world this guy could have jumped on, he picked a world champion kickboxer. If average Joe Schmuck were to go toe to toe with her, the Vegas odds are very, very strongly on her.
What makes you think it wasn’t MMA rules? I don’t speak Japanese, but that’s the way I always understood that match.
Well sure she did - she was an experienced boxer. But is that what we’re talking about? I mean, I’m a decent boxer and I can take a hit - I’d do ok in that scenario. But really - if you decided to steam roll her - like you really wanted to HURT her - not just spar with her, do you really think she would have been able to stop you?
Since the OP is actually looking for informed opinions, let’s try IMHO.
Moved from GQ. samclem