Saskatchewan is the same in French as in English. Some Canadian provinces do get changed, though; the Latin “Nova Scotia” becomes “Nouvelle-Ecosse,” British Columbia is “Colmbie Britannique,” etc. Indian names - Ontario, Quebec, Saskatchewan, etc. - stay the same; European names change, except for Alberta.

Until this thread, I had no idea that Turin and Torino were the same place.

Man, I’m dumb.

You’re not talking about a made-up word. You’re talking about a word which has existed for centuries. All major Italian cities aquired anglophile names.

(My Torino cousin calls it Turin when he’s talking in English - do I need better evidence than that?!)

Anglicization is making up a word. All words are made up. They don’t dig them up from the earth’s crust. [/nitpick]

I was wrong to call it arrogant, and for that I apologize.

I’ve never in my life heard apart from the car we had in America in the early '70s. Until this thread, I thought it was Spanish, and something to do with bulls.

I understand the problems with transliterating stuff like “Beijing”, but when you’ve got a perfectly pronouncable word like “Turin”, it seems a little strange to alter it to an archaic form - especially since the majority of the target audience will almost certainly have never heard of it in the first place.

Jjimmus, Oxonia

Why should the other city tell us how to say a word in English? That’s arrogant, too.

In English, we say “cow,” when the French call it “vache.” Is it arrogant not to say “vache” when referring to a French cow? We’re making up a whole other word to call a vache!

Should we only refer to Russian cities in the Cyrillic alphabet? Is it arrogant to put them into roman letters?

Is it arrogant to call the capital of France, “Paris,” when residents call it “Paree?”

I dunno about arrogant, but to me Torino sounds a lot nicer than Turin. I just happen to like the Italian language, is all. Same with Firenza versus Florence or Milano versus Milan.

What I notice is that, in English, none of the French city names changed! Paris is Paris, Carcasonne is Carcasonne, Toulon is Toulon, Marseilles is Marseilles, and Val-Thorens is Val-Thorens. Even Caen is Caen and Cannes is Nice er Cannes (old joke).

I’m guessing that this is the Norman/French influence on English going back to William the (bloody) Bastard/Conqueror’s holiday trip across the Channel.


Or Marseille. Tourists could be more welcome than conquerers to use the exonym. And people outside the USA could wonder why “America” is the endonym.

My Italian is pretty week, but “torino” sounds to me like it would translate as “little bull”. I don’t know if that is an accident or actually has some significance for the city.

But isn’t it more the norm in Europe for older towns to have had their names modified many times over the years? And Italy is famous for having dozens of regional dialects. Maybe “Turin” was an acceptable form of the town’s name in some dialect at some time and that is where English picked up the word. It’s pretty common in Romance languages to mix “o” and “u”, or to drop or modify vowel endings. I can easly see Turin and Torino as being simple variations of the same name.

In fact… “Turin” sounds suspiciously French to me (o -> u, drop the vowel ending). I bet we got it from the French, and considering how close Torino is to France, this would make sense. Any French speakers available for comment?

Torino does sound lotz nicer than “Turin” (english)… like others, I believe the Italian language is the most beautiful sounding language on the planet :slight_smile:

Bella Italia!
con tutto il mio cuore,

I guess I’m in the minority. “Turin” sounds very… masculine to me. In all of the positive sense of the word, if that makes sense. It sounds like a medieval nation, and I like that ring.

They also have definite articles and genders they don’t have in English. La Colombie-Britannique, l’Alberta, la Saskatchewan, la Nouvelle-Écosse, and l’Île-du-Prince-Édouard are all feminine, as is Terre-Neuve-et-Labrador, though it doesn’t have an article for arcane reasons I won’t get into.

Le Yukon, le Nunavut, le Manitoba, l’Ontario, le Québec, and le Nouveau-Brunswick are all masculine; les Territoires du Nord-Ouest is masculine plural.

I should make clear that French does the same for most other countries and regions around the world (le Nouveau-Mexique, la Pennsylvanie), as does Italian (la Nuova Scozia).

Quoth Wikipedia:

Interesting. But that article doesn’t make it clear if the “little bull” meaning is accidental or not. Tau -> Taurini from a Celtic language. Does “Tau” have the meaning of “bull” in any Celtic languages? Beats me.

Hey, if you look up that page in French on Wiki, the city’s name is “Turin”. I think I was right about English getting it from French.

Of course the English don’t change the names of French cities. Where do you think we got all the wacky names we have for Italian cities? From French, of course. And it’s not as though the French just made up names for those cities; the original Roman names got altered by linguistic change to yield their modern Italian forms, and likewise they changed over history among French speakers to yield their modern French forms. They’re both the results of predictable phonological changes in modern Romance languages.

(I didn’t want to blame matt_mcl for Wikipedia’s incorrect information)

No it doesn’t. In fact, the tribe (Taurini) & thus Turin do in fact come from the “bull” word, according to Delamarre’s Dictionnaire de la langue gauloise. The Gaulish word for bull was taruos (compare Irish tarbh, Welsh tarw). Latin speakers tended to modify the Gaulish to match their own word, taurus.

Interesting that Indian names for provinces stay the same, but not for some other things like major rivers. Isn’t the French Canadian spelling for the Ottawa River some abomination along the lines of Ouatouais ?

(I’m kidding when I say “abomination”. They’re both just transliterations of an (originally) unwritten language.)

Outaouais. And the river is actually called “rivière des Outaouais”, in the plural form.