Torture porn - do you enjoy it, and if so why?

Of course, the Woody Allen version was a parody with little relevance to the book, but I think even in the 60’s they wouldn’t have filmed the testicle torture incident. It’s become possible to show it to audiences now for the same reason that torture in general has become so much more mainstream in movies, I speculate. Just as critics find much Cold War anxiety in the horror and sci-fi flims of the 50’s, I think in the future this torture porn will be seen as a manifestation of something brewing in our psyches ever since we found out that the torture of prisoners was being ordered and approved at the highest levels of American government.

We’re not talking about just another genre where a couple hours of your time might bore or annoy you. You can joke that an Adam Sandler film can’t be unwatched. But for the films you’re talking about, can’t be unwatched is not a joke. I myself stopped visiting TheSpill.com movie reviews, because that’s where I first read about The Human Centipede. I’m coming around to forgiving the popular culture for continuing to mention this damn movie, but that half of a movie review I read before realizing what the story was about can’t be unread, to my cost.

I did watch Cube. I didn’t know it was going to be about people getting mutilated, but once I became aware I gave it a fair viewing. I summed up what I though afterward in Abridged Script style:

[spoiler]I saw a movie called The Cube recently. It’s the kind of film that sucks so hard you can’t get it off of you. It’s a lamprey of a film. I keep going over my mind how they tried to rationalize the fact that they had no intention of explaining why the film’s premise should make sense. Here’s my Abridged Script:

Cop: Hey, we’re all in this structure full of cubes, some of which are trapped with gruesome special effects, and a worrysome rumbling noise that nobody is going to suspect is the sound of these modular units moving until very late in the film. Let’s get our shit together and try to get out.

Doctor: We’ll all be dead in three days from hunger and thirst.

Mike from RedGreen: Not me, I’m sucking on the button from my shirt.

Cop: Hey, I know who you are!

Audience: No shit, it’s the lovable rogue Mike from Redgreen.

Cop: No, it’s The Wren, expert escapologist who has busted out of many sophisticated prisons.

Mike from RedGreen: That’s right, assholes. I’m letting you tag along so I can use your boots to set off traps.

Mike from RedGreen goes off on technobabble about molecular sensors. He gets killed horribly in the next cube.

Cop: Nevermind. I guess that was Mike from RedGreen.

Mathematician: I’ve figured it out. This series of meaningless three-digit numbers tell us which rooms are safe, as long as you have somebody along who can recognize a prime number at a glance. Good thing only one lense of my glasses was broken when the Cop saved me.

Cop: Well, I’ll provide rational leadership here and hopefully our team-work will get us to safety.

Architect: Yeah, sure. This will be a thinking-man’s thriller, and nobody will have to go psycho. Whatever.

Doctor: Dammit, this is all a big government conspiracy of the patriarchal hegemony of the jews controlling the world bank of the millitary industrial complex of the Illuminati under the command of Martians.

Architect: Your paranoia is actually very naive, because, just as a case in point, I designed the outer shell of this place with no idea what it would be used for, because an architect doesn’t need to know that kind of thing. So, you see, it’s just a big thing that nobody in particular is responsible for, especially not me.

Doctor: You mean that nobody in particular kidnapped us, anesthetized us, stripped us of all belongings except The Mathematician’s glasses and put us in these uniforms with our names on them?

Architect: You’re still not getting the point.

Mathematician: You mean it’s a big metaphor for the emergent phenomena of society in which overall structural is indifferent to human suffering, in spite of its apparent cruelty and dehumanization of each person individually?

Architect: Sort of, probably. Yeah. Think how deep that is, not what epistemological and phenomenological problems – or God forbid practical issues – arise, and you’ve got the jist of it.

Cop: Bullshit. Metaphors don’t get reified to the extent that we end up standing in them literally crawling around, fearing for our lives.

Architect: You still don’t get it, do you?

The party finds a retard.

Cop: This retard is probably not going to turn out to have any special insights to add. Let’s ditch him.

Doctor: No, the compassion that I represent can’t allow that. Let’s bring him along no matter how much of a burden he represents, because humans don’t let obnoxious and uncontrollable people die just because they might get the rest of us killed.

Cop: Aha! By your liberal stance I can tell you are part of the problem that results in crack addicts gang raping crack babies.

Doctor: Aha! By your conservative stance I can tell that you beat and rape your children.

Cop: gurgle Mmmmm… raping and beating children… Sorry, did you say something?

Cop “accidentally” lets Doctor get killed. He kidnapps Mathematician and carries her to another cube.

Cop: We don’t need those other shitheads. They are only getting in the way of me beating and raping you, as an example of what’s wrong with society.

Mathematician: Wait, I thought the problem with society was the way its overly regemented and increasingly obfuscated rules crushed individuality and left us squirted with acid like Mike from RedGreen.

Cop: Dumbass, the problem with socitey is that these liberal freaks are so busy trying to prevent me from raping and beating children that I don’t have time to keep crack addicts and other liberals from raping and beating children.

Architect: Aha! I have shown up, and dragged the retard with me, for whatever good that will do me!

Mathematician: It might get you laid if we survive, and no government agents we have not bothered to wonder about bother to put bullets in our brains so we don’t tell anybody about this pointless and horrific public works project. Wait, as it turns out, the rule wasn’t that rooms with no prime numbers weren’t safe or are safe, whatever. It was the rooms that were factors or factorials of primes, what’s the difference?, of prime numbers. I figured that out with just my amazing mathematical memory, although now all the sudden I can’t figure out the factorial nature of any future chamber. Only a computer or a retard somebody bothered to train in lugubrious mathematical caluculations could do it before we starved.

Retard: I’m autistic and happen to have been trained how to do lugubrious calculations.

Architect: I’ve outsmarted the Cop, who went psycho completely out of the understanding we had of him at the beginning. Now we’ve taken a safe path he can’t follow to the exit.

Cop: I’ve gotten through anyway just in time to kill everyone but the retard with an instrumet of mysterious origin.

Architect: Just for that, I’ll get you ironically killed by the exit.

Cop: splutch gurgle

Retard: I alone live to walk into a mysterious etherial white light that the audience is left to speculate about.

Writers: Fuck you. You’re not deep enough to get it. Go watch 2001: A Space Oddesy, you lightweights![/spoiler]

Also, here on the SMDB, in limerick form:

The film made me angry, because withholding from viewers an explanation of what’s going on isn’t clever, and it reveals the thinness of the premise that gave them an excuse to show people suffering. But I did give it a second shot by watching Cube 2: Hypercube. It was even dumber and more pointless – in fact the pointlessness was raised to a new level of abstraction.

Now of course I am aware that there is a genre of films, called ‘torture porn’ for audiences that enjoy lurid inhumanity. And you ask people to watch these films before they judge whether or not they’re the kinds of films they will balefully wish they hadn’t watched?

I know this is an old thread. But I like “torture porn.” I like all horror films. I think part of it is that they’re cathartic. I experience relief that I’m not in a similar situation–it’s like my problems are comparatively not so bad, compared to theirs. I also occasionally experience bouts of flattened affect where it feels like no emotion can touch me. But listening to the right song or watching the right movie at the right time can pop me out of it. *Hostel *and *Saw *are good for that.

At the same time, I cannot watch beheading videos or real torture. I can’t even conceive of seeking them out, because I know that’s real. Real suffering makes me feel awful. And I’ve never done so much as slap another human being. I’ve never been in a fight, never hit back, never tortured an animal nor had any desire to do so. I’m not secretly suppressing murderous rages or about to turn and kill anybody. But on a movie screen? It’s all fucking fake. I *know *it’s fake. So it’s safe for me to enjoy it.

At tthe end of the day, it’s like eating hot sauce. You do it partly for the addictive sensation of xtreeeemness and partly for the feeling of toughness and superiority. In the case of the artier films, you get to be not only more manly but more intellectual and a champion of free expression too. Read IMDb comments sometime (as much as I care to do regarding this stuff).

Since we’ve been resurrected, I’d like to post about the latest “gore” film making the rounds: Thanatomorphose. The teaser is pretty sickening, considering how little it shows. Plot: a young woman with a physically and emotionally abusive boyfriend wakes one day to find herself, literally, decomposing.

Thanks to this zombie I will be adding those to my list.

Never heard of these called “torture porn” before.

I actually liked all of the Final Destination films - wouldn’t pay to see them in a movie theater, but find them oddly funny when on cable…basically the surprise payoff and they are nothing worse than any other action adventure/horror film where people get killed in bizarre ways.

I thought Hostel was pretty gross, but still held my attention - and one of my favorite, classic horror films from the 80’s was Mother’s Day…a sick, twisted little film that had the best opening scene that really made you sit up quickly!

I also like Dexter (lots of blood and killing) and Boardwalk Empire (lots of blood and killing) and Sopranos, and The Wire, and HBO’s OZ, etc.

That said, I cannot watch any “real” film or documentary about any “real” operations or blood or anything of the sort.

As long as I know these are Hollywood special effects, no problem - but show me a quick snippet of a real operation in a real hospital, and I want to pass out or throw up.

I absolutely couldn’t stand Hostel and felt dirty after watching it, but Saw was a fantastic psychological thriller which I watched a few times, and I even liked the sequel and the 3rd one well enough (I stopped there though… there really was no point to continuing it past number 3). I think it’s absolutely hilarious that Saw is included in the same genre as Hostel. To me, they are leagues apart. The torture that was going on in the first three Saw movies was not the point of the movie… they were good movies besides the torturing. Hostel, however, was all about the torture and how gruesome it could be. I can only imagine how bad Hostel 2 is.

That being said, Funny Games was about 1000 times worse when it comes to “torture porn”, and they didn’t even show any of the violence on screen in that movie.

I’m no expert, but what from I understand, all the best torturers go through a ‘brutalization’ process (fairly akin to torture) which toughens them up for doing it to others…

[sorry no cite, either…]

That said, I agree generally with you… I can’t really understand the mindset of someone who wants to watch this stuff.

So you find such scenes “titillating?”

Sure sounds to me like you are identifying with the torturer.

Reading this thread actually made me seek out clips of the US version of Funny Games on the utubes out of curiosity. I’d heard a lot about Haneke’s work and FG in particular, but never had seen it. While I appreciate horror as a genre and have enjoyed a good scare-fest now and then, I almost never actually sit down to watch a horror film (meta- or comedy- horror like “Cabin in the Woods” is about as hardcore as I’ll get). But, oddly enough, I do get intrigued by creepy trailers I see on TV and seek out spoiler-sites and synopses to reveal what are usually disappointing plots, so I get my “so what happened?” curiosity sated without having to actually see the film.

That’s a long way of getting to that I LOVED ‘Funny Games.’ Well, “loved” is a strong word for such a disturbing flick, but I really thought it was brilliant in concept and in (heh) execution, and was one of the best examples I’d ever seen of a film combining form and content. I was completely horrified by it, to the point of doubting myself as a human being for watching it, yet it has less gore than your average episode of The Big Bang Theory.*

In short, I disagree with drewtwo99’s assertion that FG is “torture porn,” but I think mainly because many of us disagree on how TP is defined. I’m not a fan of the subgenre, if it can even be considered a valid category, but this thread has made me think of it this way:

Horror - Killer raises his knife to stab our hero(ine), camera cuts away to a scream.
Slasher - Killer raises his knife to stab our heroine, but she shoots him just in the nick of time and gets away.
Torture Porn - Tight-shot on our heroine’s toe being severed with tinsnips.

I fully understand these are special-effects and no one is being harmed, but I prefer the tease of suspense over “leave-nothing-to-the-imagination” gory detail. What I found genius about FG is its ability to be orders of magnitude more squirmy and agonizing to watch than, say, ‘The Shining’ when the only two actual, physical acts of violence shown on screen* are perpetrated by the heroine against the villains. One of the two incidents is a tepid slap on the cheek and the other is the only legitimately “violent” bloody act, very fakey and clumsy, and is immediately ‘undone’ by the main villain by rewinding the film and scolding her for breaking the rules.

*Disclaimer, I haven’t actually watched the ENTIRE Funny Games yet so I might have missed something in the middle that disputes these claims. But I was intrigued enough to want to watch the whole thing on Netflix at the next opportunity.

I saw Saw 1 and Hostel 1 as well.

I thought Saw was a well made film, and a genuinely enjoyable horror/suspense-thriller in parts. Overall though, I didn’t like the film that much and wouldn’t want to watch it again or see any of the sequels.

Hostel had some good acting by Jay Hernandez and the first 2/3 of the movie was good for a horror movie because you were in a foreign land and strange things were happening and we weren’t getting any answers. But once we saw the actual torture it was a little too much.

That said, I think the film Audition was excellent. I felt it was genuinely more interesting and scary, but I felt it had much more story to it, rather than just about a killer.

So for me, I’m not a fan of Saw or the Hostel series and I’m glad I didn’t see Hostel 2.