In response to John Mace and Nzinga here…
Most of it, apart from the dick up the ass thing, didn’t seem like it was even intended to be funny, though. It just seemed like a rant. I mean, “gay is something that kids learn from the media and programming”? How is parroting extremist fundie views comedy, unless you’re doing it to make fun of them, which I don’t believe Tracy was?
I like how you cut off my quote right before I said someone who cross dresses for a living should be more open minded. Basically my whole point. I know dressing up like a lady’s not gay. I’m pretty sure people who agree with his points would think so and it make him look like a hypocrite. So, thanks for butchering my quote. I hope you feel smug.
What’s the difference? He was addressing an audience under his own name. Why should he not be taken at his word?
The dialog of American History X wasn’t written by Edward Norton, nor was it based on “things Edward Norton thinks are funny.”
A standup comedian does write their material to be funny. And if you find racist or homophobic jokes funny, then yes, it can be an indication that you are a racist or a homophobe.
One of these is important to this guy.
It’s not a question of humor versus correctness. A routine can be one or the other or both or neither. I don’t require my humor to be “correct.”
I’m questioning the idea (advanced here by ExcitedIdiot and Nzinga) that stand-up is fiction.
I don’t get the argument that Morgan was not acting as a comedian. Was the audience expecting to be attending a lecture on the nature of sexual attraction? Did they receive course credit towards a college degree or something?
George Carlin made frequent jokes about the idiocy of religion, the government, the joys of potsmoking, and the hypocrisies of modern society. Richard Pryor’s routines included the joys and perils of drug use, having lots of sex with lots of women, growing up in a really bad area, and black life. I somehow got that Carlin really was a left wing atheist potsmoker and that Pryor really was a [former] heavy drug using horndog black guy.
It’s not unreasonable to think most stand-up is autobiographical and, though perhaps exaggerated, reflects the person’s actual point of view.
Just to play Devil’s advocate.
Apparently his big beef (assuming it was real and not just comedy material) was “the gay voice”. I know some gay folks that aren’t particularly fond of the “gay voice”. And I suspect that if it wasnt a pseudo gay thing they’d hate it to.
Now, is a gay voice a choice or a genetic condition? You can’t have it both ways.
Kevin Rogers, the photographer who was apparently the first to speak out against Morgan’s remarks, believed that Morgan was not acting as a comedian during the portion of the performance in question. Rogers wrote “The sad thing is that none of this rant was a joke. His entire demeanor changed during that portion of the night. He was truly filled with some hate towards us.”
Since I wasn’t there I don’t know if Rogers is correct that there was a sudden change of tone, but it’s not beyond plausibility that a comedian would stop joking around for a moment to rant about something that genuinely angered him. And like alexandra I’m having a difficult time seeing how a statement like “Gay is something that kids learn from the media and programming” was even meant to be funny. I say that not because I think it’s too offensive to be funny, but because it doesn’t seem like any kind of joke at all. A line like that could maybe work as part of a parody of anti-gay attitudes, but it doesn’t sound like that’s what Morgan was going for and AFAIK he hasn’t claimed that it was.
Going from what I’ve read, he only mentioned the “gay voice” once. He apparently spent more time saying that being gay is a choice and mocking the “insignificant” problems of bullied gay children. He also reportedly said President Obama should stop speaking out in support of gay youth. If these are in fact his sincere beliefs, I’d say his big beef is with the idea that sexual orientation is or should be a protected class. To play armchair psychiatrist for a moment, I don’t find it difficult believe that someone like Morgan, who apparently had a very difficult early life, might resent the recent attention given to the plight of gay youth.
Well, thats another whole ball of wax then.
Gay youth today, they have it easy. When I was a kid, they just killed killed themselves and didn’t complain about it!
There’s no firm line there. Comedians often say stuff they really mean and talk about their own lives, and other times they make up stuff and what they say doesn’t represent their real opinions. With the context we have, it doesn’t sound like he was joking, but you can only be so certain.
To add to the name confusion, there’s who I confused him with: Craig Morgan. Also a country music singer.
People keep saying this. Can anyone name or link to an original stand-up performance which expresses a point-of-view clearly at odds with the comedian’s genuine, contemporaneous personal feelings in another cited context?
Sasha Baron Cohen ? Not really stand-up I suppose. Stephen Colbert would be another one.
ETA: also, Tosh.0 whose stand-up persona is that of an smug, racist little shitstain when the real guy probably isn’t. Sarah Silverman, same thing.
Minority comedians often make jokes about the stereotypes applied to their ethnic group as if those stereotypes were true. Do you think the writers and actors on SNL think Stefan is an accurate example of a gay person in NYC?
… or Andy Kaufmann… he misrepresented himself in a sardonic manner constantly. Think he was really a misoygynist and hated the “hillbillies” of Memphis and Jerry Lawler when he was doing his Lady wrasslin’ stint or appearing as his alter ego, Tony Clifton?
Rodney Dangerfield’s jokes about his wife. Joan Rivers’ jokes about her husband Edgar. Not all comedians give interviews to explain their real opinions, of course.
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Now, is a gay voice a choice or a genetic condition? You can’t have it both ways.
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The stereotypical gay voice is that of the effeminate or “sissy boy” male. Not coincidentally probably it is also the natural speaking voice of the tweeter who became so upset (hear him beginning around 2:51).
The reason it’s identified so strongly with gay men even though not all gay men are effeminate is that the guys to whom it’s their natural voice were usually the ones who could not hide their orientation convincingly even if they wanted to. In past generations and even to a large degree this one those who could/can hide their orientation often do/did. It’s very true that many gays are irritated by this accent, which I find no less/possibly more irritating than the number of straights who mock this manner of speech; for one thing it shows that they have no knowledge of gay history and how effeminate men, even drag queens, were invariably on the front lines of the gay rights movement. (That’s not saying they were there alone, but they were always there.)
I’m a not particularly effeminate gay guy but would still consider myself completely obvious to anybody who knows what to look for and I’m pretty much open even, but you’d be amazed how many people who’ve known me for years on a first name basis (though obviously not as intimate friends) never pick up on my being gay and are surprised when they learn it. However, an effeminate man who is married and has 7 kids will always automatically be assumed to be gay, and in school their lives are sheer hell. Other gay kids often pick on them as part of a mask to their own sexual identity. There’s no way it’s a choice: nobody would go through what they go through with other kids, often with their dads and moms, 24/7/365, if they could “choose” not to. * That’s not to say they can’t butch it up a little- every gay guy I know including myself has his “butch voice” that they use when expedient- but the “butch voice” is no more natural than speaking in a pirate voice all day- just not something you want to do. Plus, think of Kurt from GLEE if you’re familiar with him: if he perfectly aped Clint Eastwood for a minute or two of dialogue, is he going to fool anyone?
Speaking patterns are still a VERY sensitive subject among minorities. Many white southerners can do near pitch-perfect if somewhat exaggerated imitations of the Black English Vernacular-Southern accent, but if they do it in public it will often MAJORLY piss off blacks who overhear it regardless of whether they themselves speak like that. Most black people can do pitch perfect if somewhat exaggerated imitations of “proper” country-club Thurston Howell III white accents (I think it was Dave Chappelle who called it “Job Interview Speak”)- it pisses off white people who overhear it regardless of whether or not they speak like that.
An interesting example: Some of the same people who thought Shirley Q. Liquor was absolutely hysterical when she was a radio character became furious when they learned it was the persona of Chuck Knipp, a white gay he-Texan. When he began doing personal appearances in black face and drag it was of course even more controversial, though he still has black fans (Rupaul and Whoopi Goldberg among them) in addition to many outspoken critics both white and black.
I think that a large part of this is of course the fact Tracy Morgan is straight and his personal views really aren’t well known, and on such a sensitive subject that does make all the difference. Bill Cosby has trashed the way some young black men speak and that raised a loud chorus of approval from some blacks and disapproval from others; if a white comedian criticized the speech patterns of young blacks and said he’d kill his kid for speaking like a whigger, you can imagine the outcry.
In any case, I think what irks me most about Morgan is his immediate apology which seems as genuine as a $20 Rolex. Celebrities making dumbass inflammatory comments and then rushing to say “I didn’t realize those comments were dumbass and inflammatory” has gotten old and I think I’d have more respect for a “yeah I said it, fuck yourself” response. (Doesn’t mean I’d like the person, but I’d have a tad more respect for their backbone.)
*The fact that Anderson Cooper has been doing a series of reports on “Sissy Boy” therapy all week also may have helped create the storm situations for Morgan to get the national disapproving spotlight for a routine he’s probably done many times before. This has been prominently featured on Facebook and Huffington Post and other sites and had many gays really pissed off over the response to sissies (which ironically most would apply to George Rekers’ own voice and mannerisms). Not saying for certain this is a reason this blew up so, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were.