As far as comedians whose stage persona isn’t their actual one, I’ve always read that Don Rickles is a super nice guy in real life. However his heyday was a much different time; I wonder if he could make it today or if the PC cops would pull him over.
In contrast his best friend for many many years has been Bob Newhart, who is said to be almost exactly like his stage persona.
Agreed. I did laugh at that. I must be awful.
You know, it WAS a comedy show, not an interview with 60 minutes. I understand why gays would be offended to read this in print out of context, but at a comedy show? Ever watch gay and lesbian comedians go after their own communities on stage?
And FTR, I don’t find Tracy Morgan funny at all.
Well, chances are Mencia stole the joke from someone else, so fair’s fair.
Still trying to figure that out myself. 
He’s called being gay a choice before (Nov 2009).
I’m really not that thin skinned where gay jokes are concerned in general. I laugh sincerely at a lot of them, I tell them, I’ve made them on SDMB many times. When I talk to classes about being gay I usually make gay jokes as ice breakers because you’re never going to reach people who feel like you’re preaching to them or playing the victim (and I really don’t consider myself a victim). It’s hard to really say exactly what is so offensive about Morgan’s material. The part about killing his son is something I’d really have to see the concert to pass judgment because it sounds like it could be a callback to a previous joke.
Of course one thing that irks me is how pandering it is. He’s in Nashville, a city that like any large city has a large gay community but is also (as mentioned before) where homophobic legislation was just passed and a redneck mecca due to the country music scene- anti-gay humor is a safe bet. And of course a large part of his audience was black, also a notoriously homophobic group as a general rule. (Some of the worst horror stories I know in family rejections come from gay effeminate black men.) To me both of these are why it just was a total misfire for my part, but again- I really wish there was a video as it’s hard to judge a comedian’s routine by the transcript.
Bernie Mac’s routine on his 6 year old gay nephew was one that I found both disturbing and funny. (4:20 here.)
Morgan’s father died of AIDS in 1987 when Tracy was 18. I’ve no idea how he received it (sexually or non) but it probably was a worldview defining experience.
Stephen Colbert’s character is very explicitly a parody of conservative talk-show hosts. Are you saying Morgan was attempting a parody of a homophobe?
I would also note that Stephen Colbert takes it to the point where what he’s doing is obviously parody. Sadly, “I’ll kill my son if he’s gay” is something that real people actually do say.
“I’d stab my son to death” is not a joke by an stretch of the imagination. There is not even any discernible attempt at humor there. Of course, everyone should be able to say whatever they want (and I don’t even think they NEED to apologize for anything) but this was way worse than just unfunny. I totally see why people were offended.
Exactly: they were understood as jokes, not actual references to his wife hating him and constantly cheating on him. Whether or not he used her name is irrelevant. The jokes were always “My wife” this and that. Dangerfield was playing a character onstage, but he never announced that he was playing a character. Most comics have personas and they wind up being exaggerated versions of themselves.
It doesn’t matter who the butt of the jokes was - they’re still jokes. She says here that his favorite sexual position is “next door.” Which is a pretty good joke, incidentally.
I’m not sure how much more you want. Most comedians aren’t going to admit they don’t believe what they say and that the stories they tell onstage are made up. Unless the comedian is really playing a character - which people say Morgan is, although I can’t say one way or the other - what you see onstage tends to take the form of exaggerating their real views (Lewis Black) and not saying things they genuinely don’t agree with. My point isn’t that Morgan didn’t believe what he said, because my inclination is that he did on some level. John Mace said he "[didn’t] get the argument that Morgan was not acting as a comedian,"and I was saying there is not always a firm dividing line between the performer acting as a comedian and saying what he actually thinks.
Roland Martin wrote a long editorial on the Morgan controversy today. I read it and am still not sure of his point.
Nobody is calling for Morgan’s beheading or the loss of his freedom of speech. The main argument about his routine seems to be “it was mean spirited but it wasn’t funny (according to one audience member)”. The more controversial the material the more volatile the mixture- kind of like meth making, one little drop of sweat off your nose can cause an explosion. Morgan was juggling nitro and dropped a bottle.
I’m never going to be able to see Sarah Palin again without thinking of anal sex.
Thank you.
That just goes back to the original question: name someone who did stand-up comedy who was saying things they didn’t believe in. Even with your argument, Kaufman is still the ur-example, because even the act of him doing stand-up itself was ironic, to say nothing of the routine itself.
Do you actually believe that Tracy Morgan’s professional career (such as it is) will really suffer any long-lasting negative fallout due to his ill-advised comments/jokes/hate-speech tinged rantings?
For better or worse, this will be all forgotten about within another couple of days…
I’m guessing it’ll have no lasting impact. I do think the best part of his career is behind him but that would be true if he’d hosted a tea party for homeless kids on the stage last week- I just think he’s pretty much run his course.
But yeah, in a few days Carrot Top will accidentally sext a 12 year old convent girl or an Olsen twin will be videotaped garroting a homeless person or whatever and this will be gone, especially since there’s no video.
Isaiah Washington seems to have suffered some career damage, although I’m sure there are lots of ways in which his incidents might be seen to differ.
I was going to link that CNN opinion article, too. I saw the article before I read this thread.
I think his (Roland Martin) main point was that comedy (humor) is poorly defined. Why would some people find gay jokes funny, but not rascist stereotype jokes? Why does “a” get a pass, but “b” doesn’t? Or, why does “a” get a pass when Richard Pryor does it, but not when Tracy Morgan does it?
He’s (Roland Martin) not defending Morgan, but asking us to do some honest introspection.
Eddie Murphy did some edgy humor too. There is one where he made fun of family barbeques, the kids would catch on fire, and the adults are like “Ahhh that’s ok. Roll him around a little bit, He’s all right.”. Does Murphy really mean that he wouldn’t be concerned if his kids caught fire? Of course not. It’s a ridiculous reaction to a serious situation, so it’s funny.
Murphy also did a skit where famous (at the time) action stars (like Mr. T) were gay. Offensive? Why, or why not?
But I assume Morgan did poorly in that his “set up” (statement of the premise) and his reaction to it seemed too real, so people become confused or uncomfortable.
Apparently, it’s the kind of routine Morgan’s kid will do, if he knows what’s good for him.
Bill Cosby: My mother said to me: "When your father gets home, he’s going to shoot you in the face with a bazooka! And I’m not going to stop him this time, either! You know, he’s always wanted to kill you! The day you were born, he said, ‘Kill it!’ I stopped him from killing you for eleven years…
[he starts sobbing]
Bill Cosby: …and this is the thanks I get for saving your life!"
Interestingly, Tracy Morgan’s best recurring character on SNL spoke in a lispy “gay” voice.
I’m Brian Fellows!
Again I ask, if I as a white gay male said, exactly what Tracy Morgan said, but replaced gay with black, and what would the fallout be.
I can 100% guarantee you it would be different.
An apology is worthless.
I understand how people fail to get worked up over this.
For instance, I have no problem with a bunch of poor white trash getting rich and moving to California -> Beverly Hillbillies
But what if we have poor blacks in Mississippi, getting rich and moving to Detroit -> Negrosse Pointe Negros
For some reason the latter isn’t as funny.
The Cleveland Indians, so what? The New York City Jews? Something doesn’t sit well about that.
Once again, I am not so outraged about what he said, for as awful as it was, when all is said and done, he IS just speaking his mind and he certainly is entitled to do that.
My problem is gay people once again being relegated to the back of the bus and being told “What’s the problem it gets there the same time as the front.” Try telling that to Rosa Parks. It’s true isn’t it. But somehow it ain’t right
I’ll bet thiose Negrosse Point Negroes preserve the chitlin’ baptist part of their upbringin’ more than the Beverly Hillbillies.