A question about right-of-way with regard to traffic in the US.
There’s a 4-way intersection.
The main road runs North-South.
A side street intersects the main road from the West.
The private driveway of a business intersects the main road from the East, directly opposite the side street.
There are no traffic control lights, only stop signs on both the side street and private driveway.
Two cars approach the intersection at the same time.
One from the side street, one from the private driveway.
The car on the side street is turning left (North).
The car leaving the private drive is turning right (also North)
When traffic on the main road is clear, and both cars can execute their turns, who has the right of way?
I understand that usually, a right-turning vehicle has the right-of-way over a left-turning vehicle.
But in this case, the right turning vehicle is leaving a private driveway.
Isn’t it true that when leaving a private driveway, right-of-way is always yielded to the vehicle(s) already traveling on the actual roadway?
I encounter this situation every morning on my way to work (I’m driving the vehicle on the side street and turning left).
I think I have the right of way, but I’m not sure.
It’s not a passive aggressive type thing where I’m of the mind set “I’m right, you’re wrong and I’ll show you…I’ll just gun it and cut you off and if you hit me its your fault”.
It just a sort of silly dance in the middle of the intersection where neither of us is sure who should go first.
The answer won’t change my approach to the situation…I’ll still cautiously execute my turn while we figure out who’s going first.
I was just curious about the legality.
If it changes anything, this is in the state of Connecticut.
I should think you have the right of way. In situations like that, you’re better off to just proceed and let the other cars (leaving the private drive) yield to you. I find that most drivers tend to wait and see what the other car is going to do and react to it. So, just go and let them react.
Just hope the guy leaving the driveway doesn’t think the same way!
Regardless what the law is, how much traffic is there out of the business drive then? Many of the people will think they have the right of way. I would just yield. Of course, I would hate to waste a break in traffic waiting for somebody that didn’t go. Where visibility permits, I often wave the other guy on when in doubt. That gets them out of the way leaving my fenders intact.
My peeve is people that clearly have the right of way and don’t go.
I would think that the “right-turning vehicle has the right-of-way over a left-turning vehicle” principle takes precedent over any public/private road consideration, if only because such a distinction isn’t always clear.
Vehicles turning onto a road from any kind of approach, including the side street you’re on, should yield to vehicles already on that road (in the absence of control devices for the main road).
Yes. We have enough to worry about on the road without having to judge the ownership status of various entries to the main road.
Besides, the presence of a stop sign indicates that traffic engineers are treating it as a street anyway.
The fact that the westbound driver on the side street has a stop sign means that he must yield to other drivers at that intersection in accordance with conventional rules of right-of-way. That means:
[ul]
[li]If you arrive at the intersection first, you may proceed after stopping[/li][li]If the eastbound car arrives at the intersection first, you must yield[/li][li]If you arrive at the same time, you must yield because you are turning left[/li][/ul]
I have never heard the OP’s claim that “…when leaving a private driveway, right-of-way is always yielded to the vehicle(s) already traveling on the actual roadway?” At an *uncontrolled *intersection, you yield to the main roadway whether you are on a private drive, alley, etc. Private vs. public, it doesn’t matter.
The fact that the eastbound road is private does not automatically mean that the driver must yield. Otherwise, if there were a long line of rush-hour westbound traffic, the eastbound driver would *never *be able to go!
(As a side note, many states have laws that indicate who must yield, not who has the right-of-way. It’s a subtle difference that means that just because someone is supposed to yield to you doesn’t give you the license to smash into someone who failed to yield.)
It is correct but the OP’s scenario asks about what happens if they arrive at the same time. Then the rules are:
[ul]
[li]You must yield to the car on your right[/li][li]If you are turning left, you must yield to opposing traffic[/li][/ul]
The only wild card is when you have four cars who all arrive at the same time and they’re all going straight. Then it’s a free-for-all.
When a relative was in the police academy, they were told in no uncertain terms that “There is NO such thing as right-of-way!” According to her instructors, the so-called rights-of-way are guidelines at best, and cannot be relied upon for determining fault in an accident.
There are guidelines (whoever gets to the intersection first, yield to opposing traffic if turning left, etc), but they can’t be used as absolute rules. Beyond that, the guidelines are to yield to any crazy maniac who ignores the guidelines - better to be safe than get into a collision.
I say that since the driveway has a stop sign then its a street. Otherwise, why the sign?
That being said I’ve never had a situation where two cars(another car and my car) at an intersection came to a full and complete stop at exactly the same time because I make sure that never happens. If another car and I are approaching a multi-way stop at the same time, I will usually keep rolling slowly until the other person stops, then stop myself. That way it was absolutely clear who stopped first(the other guy). In the rare occasion I’m in a hurry, I’ll stop a few feet early so it will be absolutely clear I stopped first. Proceed with caution and be considerate every time though, of course.
It seems like in the OP situation, once traffic clears, since the left turn person has so much more ground to cover, the right turn guy should be able to turn first without impeding anyone, whether or not they technically had the right of way. If I was turning right in that situation, I’d probably take the turn quickly just to get out of the way and simplify things.
If I was the guy turning left I’d follow the OP’s strategy: approach with caution, smile and wave.
Thanks everyone.
Just to clarify, I didn’t describe the private drive as well as I could have. Its not a roadway, but literally a parking lot for a coffee shop. I believe the stop sign at its exit was placed there by the owners of the shop (to avoid liability?) and not by any municipal organization. IOW, I would liken it to me putting a stop sign at the end of my driveway at home. Just a reminder to those leaving that they’re entering a public roadway and need to stop and ensure the pathway is clear before proceeding.
The general consensus seems to be, err on the side of caution regardless of who you believe to have the right-of-way.
(although my driver’s ed. teacher’s voice rings in my head…“don’t be a courteous driver, be a PREDICTABLE driver”. IOW follow the law because that’s what the other guy is expecting you to do…he’s not expecting you to slow down in the middle of a busy intersection and politely let someone else into traffic…)
Does the main road going North-South have more than one lane going North? If so, the person turning right should turn into the rightmost lane, and the person turning left should turn into the leftmost of the northbound lanes, and as long as they’re careful to stay in the correct lane, it’s not that big a deal who goes first.
I would find the situation more puzzling if the person coming out of the private drive were planning to go straight.