This situation revolves around an urban firehouse. It is just off the downtown of a major city. Because of this, the street in front of it (a four lane one way street) has no “do not idle in this stretch” markings.
I was at the intersection next to this firehouse’s garage doors, waiting for the light to change. A fire truck emerged, lights and horns on. I waited for it to go by, as the light was still red. Instead it came closer… and closer. Only then did I realize that it needed ALL FOUR lanes of the street to make the hard right it wanted to make, and the light was still red.
Since I happened to be alone on that street at the time (early evening, though, so it could easily have been different), I was able to back up so the fire truck could make the turn. But suppose there’d been traffic (even just one car) behind me. What would my responsibilities have been in that situation? Risk running the red light so the fire truck could make the turn?
Is there not an area of the street, right in front of the firehouse, marked with lines resembling a crosswalk and the words “Keep Clear” painted on the pavement? That is very common in front of firehouses that I have seen, especially on major thoroughfares where there might be lots of cars.
As I said in the third sentence of my OP, there were not. If there were, I didn’t see them, but I don’t think there are; as I said, this a major street in this city, and the firehouse has at least three fire truck station doors all in a row. Marking out the street in front of all of them would take up most, if not all, of the entire block, making the traffic light I was stopped at rather silly and useless.
ETA: I found a photo of what I’m pretty sure is the same station, and the street in front of it. It’s three years old, but there are obviously no markings on the street in it.
Generally, Red light laws prohibit you from entering the intersection, and there
is no red light exception for emergency vehicles on your tail. The fire truck finds a way by you or it waits along with you for the green light.
I would run the red light, assuming I could do it safely. I checked the vehicle code for my state (California) and didn’t see anything saying it’s OK to break a law to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle. Still, I think people’s lives are more important than strict adherence to traffic laws. I also think most cops wouldn’t write a ticket in this situation, and even if one did, I would expect most judges would find you not guilty.
I think a right turn on red is only possibly legal from one of the four lanes, and that’s if the intersection has legal right turns on red, or even right turns at all.
Even if it were specifically banned at that intersection, given the description I think that’s what would be safest, and what I’d do. Unless the street to the right was a one-way the other way, in which case I’d run the red as Jeff Lichtman said. Waiting for a signal change, when something is on fire, is lunatic.
If it’s safe to do so, go through the intersection.
My husband is a downtown FF and gets frustrated by the drivers who seem to think there is an invisible force field in front of the stop line at a light. MOVE! He’s never seen anyone get a ticket for ‘running a red’ in those situations, but he HAS seen people get tickets for not getting out of the way.
I’d get out of the way of a firetruck with lights and horns on in any safe way I could. I suppose some asshole cop could give me a ticket, and some asshole judge wouldn’t dismiss it, but I’d just do it anyway.
A couple of weeks ago this happened to me, except I was in the far left lane. When the ladder truck got right behind me, I ran the red light and continued home. (The fire truck made a left turn on red.) Crossing traffic had stopped, so I was relatively safe.
****Do not wait for the light to turn green, it isn’t going to. The fire station or the emergency vehicle has preempted the light control and turned it to red before leaving the station.
Assuming it is a 4 way intersection, the light will be red in all directions. Just go through the red light, carefully.
Yes, most urban traffic lights near fire halls are preempted. In my husband’s hall, they have buttons on the wall by the door for about six or eight traffic lights around the hall so they can turn them all red as they are leaving, depending on the direction they are going. They also have a gadget in the truck to change lights as they approach.
Seems to me that the intersection needs to be set up so traffic stops before the firehouse entrance, not at the actual intersection. Also, a "“DO NOT BLOCK EMERGENCY VEHICLE ENTRANCE” or similar sign should be posted there. Also, the traffic light there should be configured so the light is in the firehouse’s favor when they respond on a call.
In the moment, I’d have proceeded through the red light, assuming there was no one else in sight or they were all stopped (for the light or for the truck). We can sort it out later in court, if it comes to that.
In the future, I’d recall that, painted lines or no painted lines, this is a working fire station, and I’m stopping on the lee side of the driveway for the light. Will I piss off other self-absorbed drivers who don’t understand why I don’t move the fuck up to the light? Absolutely. But better than getting creamed by a fire truck or delaying their arrival should it be a real emergency.
But I’m also that asshole driver who doesn’t block any intersection big enough for a crosswalk while waiting for lights or signs, even if there’s no sign saying I can’t. Comes from being married to a former paramedic. He’s constantly harping on me about, “What if an ambulance came by right now and needed to turn here? What would you do?”
It should be set up so that the traffic in front of the fire station sees green, with everyone else seeing red. Not red all four directions. Since it stayed red, I’d guess the fire station does not have preemption set up. Either way, they should fix it.
I had a case where I was in the left lane at a red light, and an ambulance came up behind me. (I was the only one in that lane, and the other two lanes had several cars.) I made sure it was safe, pulled through the red and over to the right. Every case like this is different, but in general, do what you safely can to get out of the emergency vehicle’s way.
Perhaps, with a smarter system, but there are a lot of variables and the current practice is to stop all traffic in all directions and hope people get out of the way.
If traffic gets gridlocked the fire engine can unlock the light and let it resume it’s normal cycle. Traffic is supposed to pull over and stop when seeing an emergency vehicle, turning all the lights red at least gets traffic stopped.
The current practice is stop traffic in every lane that can be accessed from the fire station? I can see how that might be a good practice on a two-way street, but why would they even install a preemption system if the only thing it can do is make it harder to get out?
