But surely you’ve been to funerals and for the immediate family, some have no tears and actually have smiles on their faces, and are convinced their loved ones are in heaven. I’ve experienced this a few times in my life with deeply religious people, some of which are my relatives. I’ve seen some speak at their funerals, and I must say it was quite remarkable how composed they were.
For these same religious people, whom many I know also believe in a fiery literal hell, what would be the reaction if they thought they lost another loved one to this kind of place? Would the same peace and tranquility now be one of tremendous horror and grief? I doubt that it would, and I’m not sure why if they believed in it with the same conviction they believed in heaven.
I’ve never seen even the most religious person who did not recognize the pain of losing someone close to them. Even if they happen to smile and say, “he’s with God now.”
Here’s my cynical response. It’s similar to holding a stock as it plummets in value (especially when it’s one’s main holding.) It’s an emotional response to an event we’re not prepared to deal with.
It’s similar to the way that most beginning water skiers cling to the rope after they fall, even though this pushes them below the water line where they can’t breathe. Fortunately, eventually more significant reflexes kick in, so folks don’t tend to drown this way. The rope is the connection to safety (the boat). The fact that it’s no longer serving a useful purpose takes a while to sink in – and only sinks in because it’s totally obvious.
Less cynical viewpoint: if religion gives life meaning to someone, then returning to that touchstone or value center gives stability and comfort. It also provides the hope that the tragedy wasn’t quite as bad as it seems, because all those kids are now happy and in heaven.
There have been times that, had I a blue pill, I might have taken it.
I’m curious, which god do you believe in? I ask because I’ve always heard the Christian god attributed with omnibenvolence, especially from the priests & nuns I knew as a kid. It was what allowed people to say things like ‘Jesus loves you’, etc.
Should you not believe in the Christian god, no worries. But if you do, please elaborate on how think omnibenevolence is supposed to work.
The confusion in this issue arises from the idea of omnibenevolence. How exactly can you love someone and watch them die horribly right in front of you knowing you could easily prevent it? Moreover, how could you cause the thing which is going to kill them, not doing anything about it, and then try to claim that you love them? It doesn’t make any sense to say that something is all loving, and then say that the same thing randomly kills the people he loves in horrible ways for no apparent reason.
How exactly does tragedy bring someone closer to the thing that caused the tragedy in the first place? Does a violent rape and murder bring the victim’s family closer to the violent rapist & murderer?
I did make a broad statement there. I don’t know exactly how the person referred to in the OP is acting. I’ve seen people enter a blissful state to escape their grief before, but it will come out eventually in some way. The same thing happens to people who ignore grief, turn to anger, or mask it with drugs and alcohol. But if religion helps some people deal with their grief, through companionship and comforting, more power to them.
It’s really not a hard reaction to understand. If there is no God, then this guy’s kid is just gone. Forever. There’s nothing left of him as a person, just a mouldering sack of proteins, and even that’ll be gone in short order. If there is a God, however, then his kid isn’t “really” dead. He’s in heaven, where he’s happy, and will eventually be reunited with his family. I imagine that right now, this guy (and all the other parents) are desperate to find some way to make this whole thing “not happen” in some way, to find some sort of loophole or exception in reality that will undo the unimaginable pain they’ve experienced. Faith in God is their only hope in that regard.
I think that, although religious belief gets singled out, it is just a variant of normalcy bias, the perfectly common thought that, all is “not as bad as it seems,” that allows people to sit immobile on burning planes, fail to leave the path of oncoming storms or believe that the economy will soon turn the corner.
I do not blame God for the tragedy. God did not cause the tragedy; God did not kill the children.
But you would still ask how a benevolent God could allow something like this to happen. Could God “easily prevent it”? Why didn’t God prevent it?
This is the problem of evil, which, as has been noted, is its own issue, and is not something we’re going to resolve here. I will just note that if God had prevented this particular tragedy—whether by some form of divine intervention, or by creating the world in the first place in such a way that such an event was physically impossible—that would still leave me with the problem of all the other tragedies that God failed to prevent. Unless he prevented all bad things whatsoever, in which case he would have created a world in which it was impossible for bad things to happen. Which, I imagine, might well be incompatible with other things that are desirable, like human freedom or our actions mattering somehow.
I appreciate your attempts to be be civil and phrase a religious viewpoint in a positive way. However, this isn’t really what I had in mind at all.
Some people tell us that life is meaningless, that all human experience is bad, or that it would be better if we’d never existed at all. By contrast, the Christian worldview affirms the goodness of creation and the fact that each of us is extremely fortunate to be alive, especially since the odds would seem be against it. As Chesterton says, “Men spoke much in my boyhood of restricted or ruined men of genius: and it was common to say that many a man was a Great Might-Have-Been. To me it is a more solid and startling fact that any man in the street is a Great Might-Not-Have-Been.” However, in the course of daily life we often forget this fact. When we a person close to me dies or I nearly die, it draws my mind back to the central fact that I’m extremely fortunate to be alive and also extremely fortunate to have so many other wonderful living people around me.
Huh. And here I thought that god was responsible for everything, all of creation, etc. Why did god make someone like that? Doesn’t really seem like the act of someone who loves humans, making insane murderers. Are you sure he wasn’t guiding the hands of the man who did it? Cuz he seems to do that an awful lot with people like doctors and scientists and rescue workers. So what about things like tornadoes & floods? Is he responsible for the deaths caused by those?
You still haven’t answered my question. What is omnibenevolence? How does god love everyone and then randomly kill them in horrible ways for no apparent reason?
I thought the Christian worldview held that Creation, and all of its inhabitants, were inescapably tainted by evil, and the best thing that could possibly happen to a person is to finally leave it?
If you really expect a religious person to change his views just because he sees a bunch of dead kids you could pin it on the usual confirmation bias and the backfire effect.
It’s not much of a mental block if you’re a Christian who believes man is fallen and wicked though.
These kinds of people always makes me sick. No reality is stronger than the one in their head. If I were religious, and I’m glad I’m not, and I didn’t get answers to these questions, I’m out of the cult. It pisses me off that people are continuously dying and being harmed for these people. I would not support such a god. I would be first in line to overthrow such a god.
