What about people who might go to McDonald’s, etc., 3, 4, 5 times a year for some “good” fries?
Are we going to screw people because some can’t control their eating habits?
This isn’t a “poor” people problem, McDonald’s, etc., is relatively expensive food.
Where is the line to be drawn?
Nah. They can still get the transfats at the grocery store, where they can see the nutritional content right there on the package.
Besides, transfatty oils are a recent invention, gastronomically speaking. We did without them before and a century of food science advances will give us an alternative, toot suite. We still have paint without lead, and insulation without asbestos, we can do without transfats too.
It violates people’s rights no more than, say, forbidding restaurants to serve people raw meat from certain animals/certain cuts. There are lots of things that health codes don’t allow restaurants to do, after all, but people are perfectly within their rights to do them at home.
What “Civil Right” do you suppose is being violated?
Can you explain what you even mean by “Civil Rights”?
Why do you think Trans Fats are required for tasty crispy fries?
Who is going to get screwed by this and how?
McDonald’s is fairly cheap food. You can get a filling meal for under $5 easily. That is fairly cheap. Not fairly expensive.
I guess my answer to all your questions is that I think you are wrong about everything in your post.
Jim
What about 'em? Should we therefore allow restaurants to serve absinthe?
This is more of an argument for your opposition: “we” are going to help some people who can’t control their eating habits, by preventing them from ingesting a potentially dangerous food.
Relative to what? Relative to a diet of dry beans and rice, sure, you’re right–but relative to a varied, healthful diet in which a modicum of ingredients come pre-prepared, McDonald’s is not that expensive at all. My understanding (citeless, admittedly) is that McDonald’s is disproportionately consumed by folks in the lower income quintiles.
Wherever the elected legislature says it’s to be drawn. I’m not saying this is the right place for it, and you’re certainly free to agitate against it, but the “drawing the line” rationale doesn’t get you very far: you need to argue it on its merits, unless you want to launch a broadside against representative democracy.
Daniel
McD’s good fries ended when they went from frying them in beef tallow (fat), the transfat fryes is a inferior artificial alternative. And yes McD’s has no restriction going back to beef tallow.
Just to add that you can make frys that taste pretty close to McD’s by using beef tallow. IIRC you prefry them at a low tempature, let them cool then refry them at a much higher temp.
FTR, McDonald’s announced recently that they’re rolling out their trans-fat-free oil to restaurants outside of their test markets. They actually said a few years ago that they were going to switch over but then didn’t.
I content that McD’s (and others like them) is dangerously expensive to the poor. It is really expensive for what you get, but the portion is small enough that the poor can ‘afford’ to buy it. For that, lets say $5, about the only good thing you get is perhaps a 1/4 pound of low quality beef, less if you go for the Big Mac, all the rest is relativity low in nutrition besides energy (sugar-starch) and low value. On a daily basis that $5 EVM would be $150/month (or $110 for work weeks only) per person, that’s a low of money for the lower classes.
Then again in the US we don’t have many really poor people, if you use the world standard of poor. I don’t consider someone poor if then have hot and cold running water, , heat, TV, name brand shoes, and a big Mac in their hand. I do find many people taking advantage of the lower classes, not only McD’s but stores that cater to these people by stocking products that appear cheaper because of their pricetag, but are actually much more expensive on a per-unit basis. I find that practice disgustingly sad.
By me more Extra Value Meals are over the $5 range, and some over $6.
But, McDonalds and other fast-food places are cheap compared to any restaurant/diner. So unless you are making and bringing your own lunch McDonalds is fairly cheap. Even if you bring your own lunch, how much cheaper is it for the average person? Those frozen meals and a soda can come close to the same price. I know that a person could do lunch very cheaply for an entire week. However as we are talking about restaurants in NYC I stand by the fairy cheap statement.
I do realize that is can add up, I also am well aware of how awful it is for someone to eat at McDonalds 3 times a week on average. I did this out of habit and laziness for 3 years until I was so out of shape and fat that my cholesterol level went up to 240. Now I almost never eat at McDonalds. I either bring leftovers from the night before or get a Fresh Salad from Wendy’s. The lunch at Wendy’s averages an extra dollar a day for me. No big deal, but it is more expensive. I also buy made to order Turkey subs with nothing but lettuce from WAWA (convenience store chain), an unsweetened Ice Tea and usually a piece of fruit. This costs around $6.50 also. So again, McDonalds is cheap compare to most alternatives except bringing a lunch from home.
Jim
Starting with the cost of McD’s. I think ~100% of the total daily average food cost ($5.70 / person) for just one McD’s visit is expensive, don’t you? Plus, the $5.70 / person /day is 26% above the USDA Thrify Food Plan. I think you are way off on your comment about “fairly cheap” to start.
---- Food-secure households spent more for food than food-insecure households. In 2005, the typical (median) U.S.household spent $40 per person for food each week—about 26 percent more than the cost of USDA’s Thrifty FoodPlan, which is a low-cost food “market basket” that meets dietary standards, taking into account household size andthe age and gender of household members. The typical food-insecure household spent 1 percent less than the cost ofthe Thrifty Food Plan, while the typical food-secure household spent 33 percent more than the cost of the ThriftyFood Plan, or 34 percent more than the typical food-insecure household of the same age and gender composition.
http://www.ers.usda.gov/Publications/ERR29/ERR29_reportsummary.pdf
Should people be able to choose if they want red dye #2 in their food? What if restaurants want to use it to make their food look better?
Now, that we have established that McD’s, for example, is relatively to very expensive food:
— Trans fat behaves like saturated fat by raising low-density lipoprotein (LDL or “bad”) cholesterol that increases your risk of coronary heart disease (CHD). … Saturated fat and trans fat raise LDL (“bad”) cholesterol. – FDA
1 - The FDA has not banned the use of trans fats, NYC did.
2 - Many, many foods raise the LDL. High amounts of saturated fat are found in animal products, such as beef and pork, chicken skin, butter, whole milk, and cheese. Foods high in cholesterol include liver, other organs meats, egg yolks, and dairy fats.
3 - NYC did not ban McD’s hamburgers or whole milk, eggs, cheese, etc.
4 - 50% of heart attacks occur in people who have normal cholesterol.
Why are trans fats being singled out as bad for you? In moderation, they aren’t any worse than many other “LDL” foods consumed on a daily basis.
We still get back to the main question: what particular “civil right” do you think NYC is violating? Given that the government has the valid right to impose all sorts of restrictions on food preparation, what in particular about eating trans fats do you think is a civil right different from, say, eating other substances banned for their potential health problems?
Oh, and by the way, it doesn’t cost $5.70 around here to eat at a McD’s for one visit. A basic value meal is a roughly $3.50 expense, and cheaper alternatives that include burger, fries and softdrink are available.
Why should I be able to serve trans fats in my restaurant but not insulate it with asbestos or decorate it with lead paint?
Indeed. YOu can eat at McDonald’s for less than a buck, if you get a basic hamburger and water to drink. When you’re eating the $5 meals, you’re getting almost the number of calories you need to survive for a single day.
Daniel
Do you have a current price list for McD’s value meals? All of them would be good so we can see what the average prices are? The last time I was there, a value meal, including the trans fat fries, was quite a bit more than $3.50.
Isn’t banning food and drug products left to the FDA? I am trying to find a precedent for where a city, even a state, had banned a food product that the FDA hadn’t banned. Will follow up …
Actually yes, we should. The wikipedia article about absinthe contains some good primary-source cites and says, in summary, that “no evidence shows it to be any more dangerous or psychoactive than ordinary alcohol.”
The red dye #2 analogy works much better.
(Apologies for the hijack. I just happen to be a fan of absinthe.)
Agricultural and food health standards can and often do vary widely from state to state or even municipalities. That’s federalism for you.
Incidentally, you can order a chicken sandwich for a dollar at a Manhattan McDonald’s. That contains 360 calories; six of those would contain 2160 calories, enough calories for an average American’s daily needs. That would cost $42 a week.
In any case, all this is totally irrelevant. You initially said that this isn’t a “poor” people’s problem. That itself is irrelevant–who cares whether it’s a poor person’s problem or a rich person’s problem?–but if we’re trying to figure out which it is, we need to figure out who actually eats there. If poor people eat there more than rich people, that’s significant, never mind whether it’s wise for poor people to eat there from a nutritional standpoint.
Daniel
Interesting! I’ll look over the peer-reviewed articles (that wikipedia article is clearly written by an absinthe aficionado), but from the first parts I’m seeing, it looks like you’re right. Thanks for the info!
Daniel