Tricky employment situation - HR advice needed

[twickster]

Moved from MPSIMS to our advice forum, IMHO.

[Quartz]

@Bob Ducca

It sounds as if they’re dragging you along with the hope that you’ll eventually get fed up and quit, forgoing your redundancy package and saving them that money. They’d rather pay you for a year to actually do some kind of work so they’re at least getting a return on what they’re shelling out.

This.

The OP needs to look into Constructive Dismissal.

OTOH in this economic climate, you might well be glad to just have a job.

[Boyo_Jim]

As some other people have mentioned, they may be changing the terms of severance as you’re waiting to be severed. I went through a similar thing, but got the layoff terms in writing. A few weeks before they let me go, they decided they wanted to keep me for another six months, and I got the revised terms in writing. This happened again for yet another six months, and again they extended the same offer in writing, again.

In the meantime, they revised their layoff benefits policy, so lots of people got laid off before I ever left, and they got a considerably less generous package than I did.

[Acsenray]

@Boyo_Jim

As some other people have mentioned, they may be changing the terms of severance as you’re waiting to be severed. I went through a similar thing, but got the layoff terms in writing. A few weeks before they let me go, they decided they wanted to keep me for another six months, and I got the revised terms in writing. This happened again for yet another six months, and again they extended the same offer in writing, again.

In the meantime, they revised their layoff benefits policy, so lots of people got laid off before I ever left, and they got a considerably less generous package than I did.

You didn’t advise any of them to ask for the same guaranteed terms?

[Boyo_Jim]

They were laying off hundreds of people. I’m supposed to know who, so I can counsel them all?

And I got it in writing only because they were trying to screw me in the first place. Their first offer was for me to work an additional six months (presumably with a chance to find and transfer into another job) instead of my severance package.

[Jake_Jones]

While the redundancy severance is a nice perk of losing your job (if there’s ever been such a thing), it’s not meant to be a winning lottery ticket. If you can find a more rewarding job while maintaining or improving your salary, why wouldn’t you?

This of course presumes that your employer hasn’t reduced your current salary in light of your reduced contribution (and I don’t mean that in an insulting way) to the company. I think you should revise your thinking on this. If your salary hasn’t been reduced and you can make a lateral (from where you were) or better career move, with ample time to pick and choose the fit of your new position, what exactly have you lost in the process? You’re thinking of this as a bonus, which it might turn out to be, but you’re making yourself miserable in the process.

It seems to me the company is playing a game of chicken with you. While I understand that a year’s salary is a huge amount of money to walk away from, it might be better to think of it as a potential safety cushion instead of a windfall. If I were in your shoes, I would be taking every interview I could get and when the subject of availability comes up, my answer would be “for the right offer, I am available in two weeks.” Then again, I find it next to impossible to work in a job I hate for very long.

However it goes, best of luck to you.

[martu]

@nicole1912

You mean, is it possible for you to write one and have it stick? Only if you can persuade them to sign it, I think…

They absolutely should be giving you such a letter - you might email your manager (or bring it up at your next meeting) to suggest a suitable leaving date, perhaps tied to the end of one of your key projects if that’s applicable, and offer to write the letter confirming it for them to sign, as they’re obviously very busy. (Be very careful about the wording in case they “misunderstand” and take it as notice of resignation.)

If they don’t agree to the date you propose, ask them (by email) why that won’t work for them, and tell them to suggest another date that would be better for them - don’t let them keep being vague, if it’s at all possible. (I know sometimes it’s much easier to say than to do!)

Have you already agreed to stay until June? If not, next time it comes up, think about whether you can say something like “Actually, no, I can’t stay until June. You said in [month last year] that you wanted me to stay for 3 months, and I was happy to help ensure that the transition went smoothly. Since you don’t have a role for me equivalent to my previous position, I need to move on and find something permanent. What are the next steps in the redundancy process?”

That might at least focus them and give them a specific question to think about/talk to HR about. If you have already agreed to stay until June, see if the above will work when the June deadline slips…

I’d advise against turning up late, etc - you really don’t want to give them grounds to sack you for poor performance, instead of making you redundant, and I think deliberately doing stuff like that might skirt closer to that line than you really need to be. No need to jeopardise the redundancy process for the sake of a couple of months…

Thank you, good advice and yes I would be worried about making the agreed leaving date official and binding. I will look into this more.

@Quartz

This.

The OP needs to look into Constructive Dismissal.

OTOH in this economic climate, you might well be glad to just have a job.

I have gone from managing a team to fixing the installations of MS Word for idiots. My bonus was down to a third of previous years. The new firm is in serious trouble in my opinion. The longer I stay here the worse my CV looks and the harder it will be to get a new job to further my career.

I do know what you mean though, my father is expressing similar sentiments when I moan at him.

@Jake_Jones

While the redundancy severance is a nice perk of losing your job (if there’s ever been such a thing), it’s not meant to be a winning lottery ticket. If you can find a more rewarding job while maintaining or improving your salary, why wouldn’t you?

This of course presumes that your employer hasn’t reduced your current salary in light of your reduced contribution (and I don’t mean that in an insulting way) to the company. I think you should revise your thinking on this. If your salary hasn’t been reduced and you can make a lateral (from where you were) or better career move, with ample time to pick and choose the fit of your new position, what exactly have you lost in the process? You’re thinking of this as a bonus, which it might turn out to be, but you’re making yourself miserable in the process.

It seems to me the company is playing a game of chicken with you. While I understand that a year’s salary is a huge amount of money to walk away from, it might be better to think of it as a potential safety cushion instead of a windfall. If I were in your shoes, I would be taking every interview I could get and when the subject of availability comes up, my answer would be “for the right offer, I am available in two weeks.” Then again, I find it next to impossible to work in a job I hate for very long.

However it goes, best of luck to you.

Thanks but would you really give up a years salary if it had sort of been promised to you? I thought I had a big lump sum coming my way after 3 months of work, saw my former colleagues all get this pay out and find new jobs in a few months. Now I know that I could get the pay out then be out of work for ages but that is a risk I am willing to take.