Here is the situation: I work as an IT development team leader, last year my company got taken over and as a consequence I was told words to the effect of:
“There is no long term job for you at New firm but we would like for you to stay on for 3 months as we work on the integration of the IT systems”
The guys I used to manage were moved over to be managed by the IT team leader at New firm and I basically became the guy bought into meetings to discuss the old systems and also first line support for the old systems so everyone else can concentrate on the integration project.
I had 10 years at the old firm so will be getting a pretty good redundancy package coming way which means I do not want to jump and miss out on the payout.
This three months has now become 8 and the latest from my boss is that they want me to stay until June. I am not holding my breath I know what IT estimates are like, I have missed too many of them in my career.
So my first question to anyone who works in Human Resources is can I do anything to speed my exit? Do I have a case of effective dismissal? I have gone from managing a team to help desk\brain dumps, the reason I wasn’t kept on is that they do not have an equivalent job here for me.
Secondly any advice on how to frame this on my CV? I am struggling for the words.
Why do you want to speed your exit? You aren’t waiting to start your job search until your done at your current company are you?
Ideally you’re using this time to find a new job. As for your CV when asked I’d tell potential employers the simple truth - your position was eliminated when your company was acquired. That won’t be held against you.
I want to speed my exit because I am not doing what I want to do and the work is terribly dull, I did my time on the help desk years ago. I am looking but without a firm exit date the recruitment consultants are loathe to send me to interviews.
I’m not clear from your OP if you’re happy, at this point, to carry on sticking around and doing what you’re doing - I’m assuming not?
The first thing I’d do is check that your expected redundancy terms still apply. Do you have the details in writing from them? I’d be concerned that you may have taken a new job with these people, in effect. I know that this area is subject to all sots of legal controls, depending on your jurisdiction, so it may be worth talking to some sort of legal advisor if you can. I’m not sure effective dismissal is a goer - your previous position is redundant, that’s the point, so it’s hard to see how you’d argue you’re being dismissed from it.
I’d talk to the company directly, either to your direct management or to HR or both - outline your position and ask them for clarity as far as they are able to give it. I know board wisdom is that HR is the enemy and will always screw you over, but I don’t go along with that at all - it may be a cultural thing, but the HR departments I’ve worked with in the UK at least have been anxious to do the right thing by both employer and employee, if for no other reason than to protect the organisation legally and by reputation.
Actually, I think the CV question is the easiest - you were asked to stay on, post-acquisition, to ease the transition, support the new systems and processes and trouble shoot. You demonstrated clear problem-solving and process design skills, you showed commitment and loyalty, you’ve been doing teamwork and leadership stuff. Don’t see it as ‘used to manage a team, now I’m a handyman’ as much as ‘I’m the expert, retained to help smooth the transition’. Seems like this is valuable time for your CV, although I can understand you’re frustrated and anxious to move on to the next thing.
I think this might be because the OP is in the UK. In the US, the up-side of at-will employment is that you can leave any time you want (barring rare contractual agreements). Everyone usually just sees the down-side, being that an employer can terminate you at any time for no reason.
Why can’t you just say, 'Sorry, I believed your last estimate for when I would exit this job! And have, understandably been looking for other employment, as would anyone. I was happy to help out for the period I committed to. But I’m sure you can understand how the job is not really what I’d prefer to be doing, and dull as I find it not challenging enough. For these reasons I am hoping to end my employment here in, 6 wks (or whatever) time. It’s been great but I feel I have contributed all I can and that it’s time for this job to end, as I was told it would."
I don’t understand this. What do the consultant care about a firm exit date? When you get a new job offer, you give your two weeks’ notice to your current employer, and you are out of there.
I think the exit date is important because if he chooses to leave, he’s not being made redundant, so they don’t have to pay the redundancy package - this might be a large amount of money, so not usually something you’d voluntarily forgo.
OP, I too would check that the terms of your redundancy package are still applicable - I assume they are and your service for the old company is transferred to the new, but it’s worth clarifying that this is what they think, too, and seeking legal advice if not.
I don’t know enough about employment law to know if there’s anything legally you can do to speed up the process, but have you talked to your manager recently about confirming the date? It’s not unreasonable for you to want to move on if they can’t offer you a permanent role with them, and they should understand that…
Yes indeed regarding the package, I am in line for a about a year’s pay with tax breaks I would be silly to give that up obviously so I want to be made redundant not leave of my own accord.
I ask my manager about this every time we meet which is once every two weeks, vague promises are the best I get.
To clarify no I am not happy doing what I am doing, I hate coming in every day.
Thank you, the CV advice especially it does sound OK written like that. And like you I am worried that I have effectively taken a new job with these people and they could keep me until I leave myself and not have to pay up.
The redundancy terms are published internally though with the caveat they could change anytime.
I do think this is a real concern, especially if, as seems to be, you’re the last of the old guard standing, as it were. I was in a similar-ish situation, not with redundancy but with a substantial change of role and the legal advice I got at the time was that, since I had continued working under the new conditions I was deemed to have accepted them. I know that in the UK formal redundancy does come with a number of controls and safeguards, so it may not be a problem at all. Citizen’s Advice should be able to give you some initial thoughts for little or no money, or does your current employer have any Employee Suport helpline or anything?
I’ve got less advice for you about how to make them release you as promised, however. It’s probably time to start communicating about this issue solely by email or in writing,if you’re not doing that already. I don’t see why this would have to get antagonistic, but they probably will find a way not to pay you off if they can, and that would depend on your leaving independently.
It sounds as if they’re dragging you along with the hope that you’ll eventually get fed up and quit, forgoing your redundancy package and saving them that money. They’d rather pay you for a year to actually do some kind of work so they’re at least getting a return on what they’re shelling out.
Unless Bob Ducca is correct, the only other reason to keep you around is that you are useful to them. So stop being so useful. Make your answers a little less clear. Questions longer to respond to. Maybe even throw in the occasional ‘mistake’. If they are playing a game with you, play back.
Something similar happened to a friend of mine. He had a redundency package but they kept him around for years. Eventually the company was aquired and he lost his package.
No employer support line as far as I know but I will check. Legal advice may have to be the next step.
That may the case but I would find it odd as they happily paid out to get rid of half the team at the takeover including my boss who was way more expensive than me.
This is exactly what my wife is telling me - go in late, leave early, go on sick leave, be an arsehole. The problem there is I can’t bring myself to do it, damn my stupid morals. Yet.
I worked for a company that was acquired. We were offered both severence & retention bonuses. However, anyone who took a job with the new firm only got their retention bonus; they didn’t get severence as they weren’t severed. Just be careful that they haven’t converted you to the new firm without your realizing it.
What your manager is telling you is unacceptable. Escalate up the line. Let them know that you need a firm date, and you will stick with it. Ensure your redundancy package is lined up. Get everything in writing. Realize that they are not there to help you, and will do everything they can to deny you the package, and string you along.
Start looking for new jobs as soon as you have a firm date. This is important to get from the company. Don’t accept “vague promises”. A useful phrase my mother taught me is “I’m sorry, but that is unacceptable.” Then don’t say anything else. Just stare at them. Repeat if necessary.
You mean, is it possible for you to write one and have it stick? Only if you can persuade them to sign it, I think…
They absolutely should be giving you such a letter - you might email your manager (or bring it up at your next meeting) to suggest a suitable leaving date, perhaps tied to the end of one of your key projects if that’s applicable, and offer to write the letter confirming it for them to sign, as they’re obviously very busy. (Be very careful about the wording in case they “misunderstand” and take it as notice of resignation.)
If they don’t agree to the date you propose, ask them (by email) why that won’t work for them, and tell them to suggest another date that would be better for them - don’t let them keep being vague, if it’s at all possible. (I know sometimes it’s much easier to say than to do!)
Have you already agreed to stay until June? If not, next time it comes up, think about whether you can say something like “Actually, no, I can’t stay until June. You said in [month last year] that you wanted me to stay for 3 months, and I was happy to help ensure that the transition went smoothly. Since you don’t have a role for me equivalent to my previous position, I need to move on and find something permanent. What are the next steps in the redundancy process?”
That might at least focus them and give them a specific question to think about/talk to HR about. If you have already agreed to stay until June, see if the above will work when the June deadline slips…
I’d advise against turning up late, etc - you really don’t want to give them grounds to sack you for poor performance, instead of making you redundant, and I think deliberately doing stuff like that might skirt closer to that line than you really need to be. No need to jeopardise the redundancy process for the sake of a couple of months…