Once again, you’ve nailed it, succinctly and elegantly.
To be clear, he didn’t just make up details, he made up the whole thing. If his “confession” over on the other forum is to be believed (which, at this point, who the fuck knows) then he was a teenager when he first claimed to be former military. Presumably he’s just some pathetic nobody in his mid-30s who’s made up all of the life accomplishments he’s claimed here out of whole cloth.
Excellent post but I’d probably make one amendment:
They say the opposite of love is not hate but apathy. Trolls don’t need to despise their victims - they just have absolutely no regard for them.
The ones who get really emotionally invested don’t last long - they flame out pretty quickly as we’ve often seen. But the ones who are borderline sociopathic, i.e. have little or no personal emotional investment, can continue trolling for months or years and even be productive posters from time to time.
I’m again’ it.
If you want to ban somebody for trolling, then ban them for trolling.
But for misrepresenting themselves? I do it all the time. On purpose. I overstate my involvement in some things, and I understate my involvement in other things. I change details. Sometimes they’re intentionally mutually exclusive. Why? To keep internet sleuths from putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with me.
Speaking authoritatively? Few, if any, can do that here. We just don’t have a culture of Well, that poster is an authority, so I guess they’re right. That’s not us. You can claim authority all you want, but everybody else is going to hammer your claims just the same.
And who the fuck cares about “stolen valor”?
So sack up and ban a troll for trolling. But don’t justify it with bullshit.
That’s why it’s only one of three ways people can be comfortable trolling people. The other two ways is to figure you’re not doing harm, or you just don’t care (in other words, apathy as you said).
I personally think most trolls aren’t being hateful, they just don’t give a shit.
Pretty much everybody involved in any way with the military, plus some (like myself) who are not. It’s extremely reprehensible.
But if you meant " … in the context of message board Terms of Service," well, it’s also a substantive misrepresentation.
You are Canadian, right? Is stolen valor a phrase there? It may be US-specific but it means to lie about having served in the military, especially Vietnam. Is military imposter a recognized phrase up there? Or “Walting”?
~Max
Yep. MH’s career has been nothing but a very lengthy exercise in self-pwnage. I remember the last time I felt the need to lie about my accomplishments on the internet I was 17. It must be hard, being a perpetual 17-year-old with no real accomplishments to point to.
American. US Navy.
“Stolen valor” isn’t something that I or most of my non-conservative former-military friends give a rat’s ass about. It certainly shouldn’t mean anything on a message board that isn’t geared toward former military.
I agree with the general sentiment of your post. Ban for trolling, no need for histrionics.
I must have had you mixed up with someone else, sorry. In my neck of the woods, admittedly conservative, stolen valor is right up there with outright racism as one of the most wrong things (short of violence) you can possibly do. Sort of like lying about surviving or having lost family members to the holocaust. Just a huge no-no.
~Max
I’ve never served (I can admit that unlike some former board members) but I did grow up in a military family and spent a number of years living on military bases. Oh, also, I worked as a contractor for the military, and worked for and with many military folks. (And I’ve had many very close friends in the military.) I also don’t recall it ever being a huge deal for anyone I’ve known.
Then again, the branch I know is also the US Navy. Maybe it means something different for people in other branches.
Interesting. I don’t.
I mean, if I tell you a story about Greyson, who I taught in fourth grade two years ago, I might actually be telling a story about Yvonda, who I taught in second grade six years ago; and I might misrepresent the years when I taught each grade in this example.
But that’s to protect the students’ privacy, not mine. I protect my privacy by leaving out details, not by changing them.
This is a lesson I learned about 20 years ago, when I told a story about someone IRL that I knew, and I linked to her website. She was someone I respected and liked, but she had some New-Age beliefs, and I think I may have used the word “flaky” to describe her.
Some months later I saw her, and she asked me if I was King of Dorks online, and mentioned that her website had gotten hits from the Straight Dope. It was mortifying.
So I just leave stuff out now. I certainly don’t claim experience or authority I don’t really have.
Well, it’s happened before, so now I take pains that it won’t happen again.
We found one of Martin’s socks everyone!
Where was he Hydeing?
I don’t really care about stolen valor over any other misrepresentation. And if posters want to make up stories or obfuscate personal details, it’s fine with me.
But I disagree with your statement that we don’t care about misrepresentations regarding speaking from authority. I think that’s a good place to draw a line. If you tell me you have a PhD in astrophysics, and L5 is better than L2 for deep-space observations, I’ll believe you over some random schmoe. If you tell me you’ve served on a school board, I’ll elevate your opinion over someone who never has.*
If I start with the default that everyone is lying, then I miss out on a big draw of this board.
*Obviously, there are limits: if I have a question with real-world importance (e.g., medical or legal), I won’t trust blindly.
I get that. But I also think that people who are misrepresenting themselves as PhDs will pretty quickly be spotted. It’s not everybody is lying so much as question every claim.
Speaking as another moderator, i was more impressed by his bragging about gathering information to dox other posters. That seemed…antisocial, let’s say.
Huh. That’s…bizarre to me. Stolen valor is offensive, as bragging about stuff you didn’t even do is always offensive. But racism actively hurts people in a way that is totally incommensurate with “stolen valor”. Racism is an active assault, stolen valor is just being a jerk.
But our terms of service specifically say we can ban you for material misrepresentations, at the discretion of the mods. No one cares that you used a fake name when you said you had lunch with Sally, or that the anecdote about the kid you tutored is from 8 years ago, not 6 years ago. But Martin_Hyde’s misrepresentations we’re highly material to his posts.
Anyway, in his, “i powned them for 18 years” post he also claimed to have a few more accounts on this board. So my request to the active troll hunters is to keep an eye out for his “voice”, and report it to the mods.
I think this is a big part of it. If you, as stated in the ban notice use your misrepresentation to present yourself as an authority, it’s a big difference from concealing your minor personal peccadillos. Although, I’d love to see his posts in old threads with a big fat BANNED: TROLLING so that anyone reading in the future knows that anything stated was tainted as well.
And while I was typing this, I see @puzzlegal brought up the Mutually Assured Destruction intent of his doxxing as well, which went creepily dark, and was also mentioned in the formal ban.