I already did:
You are asking for examples of microevolution. That’s going to be as completely unconvincing to an evolution-denier as examples of planets would be to an astrology-denier like me.
I wanna pull this out as a special sort of bullshit. I’m not “arguing by a rather strained analogy.” I “argued” by an explicit statement of your problem, including a top-quality cite to demonstrate the problem (that is, a cite to a major Creationist website that demonstrates exactly why your evidence-request would be irrelevant to them). In this thread, I repeated an explanation of your problem, and when it became clear you were confused, I finally offered an analogy because I thought maybe that would help you understand.
You need to slow your fucken roll here and hop off the self-pity train. You’re genuinely not getting what I’m telling you, so quick are you to assume I’m telling you something different.
You know what? I’ve changed my mind.
I saw there were potential (but not very likely) scientific racism flags from somebody may not on the bright side.
But on further review and with the additional posts, those flags were sort of verified - if you are trying to argue with a Creationist on their own terms, those flags come part and parcel with the whole deal.
So, what we’re dealing with here is some combination of idiot, troll, and/or Creationist/scientific racist. I suspect the first bucket has the lion’s share, but there’s little to no value in determining the relative proportions of each.
It isn’t, at least not in any discernible way. There are all sorts of cases where geniuses are born to perfectly ordinary parents, and vice versa.
For semiprofessional reasons we happen to know a lot of girls (now young women) adopted from China by (almost exclusively) upper-middle class, well educated, white American families. We have been involving their lives from toddler age to high school and sometimes college and beyond.
I remarked that the correlation between the educational attainment of the adoptees and their adoptive parents seemed VERY high. I said this put paid to the notion of inheritance as the driver of intelligence as presumably these “foundlings” were the offspring of rural Chinese peasants. They are basically “achieving” to the expectations of their adoptive parents and sub-culture, and the favorable socioeconomic conditions (good schools, enrichment opportunities, etc)
Our Chinese friends had a different interpretation. They said the average Chinese person is just so much smarter than the average American and this is just proof of that! If they had been adopted by an American working class family, they’d still have achieved the same thing.
Basically you can’t measure anything to anyone’s satisfaction.
Whatever you’re doing in that thread, it’s not discussing things in good faith. Or, you are remarkably bad at written communication.
For the rest of you, what pinged my radar was, I answered the initial question with a bunch of non-controversial inherited characteristics – sickle cell gene, lactose tolerance, skin color, cold weather adaptations, height, X-chromosome stuff. Sly here responded with “it could be anything, height, eye color, IQ scores”. Where did that IQ score one come from? Right out of the scientific racist playbook.
So, sure, maybe Sly is just terrible at online discussions? Maybe he doesn’t know that history? Who knows. His further behavior in that thread isn’t at all promising.
Why don’t you try starting with the assumption that I am what I claim, a well-educated (with very little scientific education) Doper innocently asking how I might procure some evidence for a science-denier asking for tangible examples of some human evolution?
You’re all very quick to begin from the most skeptical position, that I am actually voicing my own beliefs in the fake voice of a science-denier (and that I’m a Nazi and that my so-far civil tone is a mask put on to hide my essential nastiness) without a shred of evidence for any of it, apart from your skeptical assumptions.
Someone here has apparently identified me as a troll, based on nothing, and someone else has agreed with his evidence-free perception, and from there, it seems to be generally agreed that I’m trolling, on no substantial basis that I can see (and therefore defend myself against). I suppose it’s worse than useless offering any defenses since they seem to fall into categories that previous trolls have defended themselves with: I’m a nice guy, I’m only asking questions, sorry if I worded that query provocatively, etc. so I’ll just give up at this point, and go about my business, having given it a shot in this thread and just made matters worse.
A few words of advice,
- Ignore this thread. It is just a few posters.
- Don’t worry about it, you’ve not been modnoted for a while after a few initial bumps and no warnings.
- This is what often happens in this thread. File it under shit happens and move on.
Okey-dokey. Thanks.
The thing is, is that nothing that you have said there is true. Nothing at all, it’s all very easily checked, and everything you said is a lie.
Your continuing to misrepresent what others have said and done is not exactly making you look like less a troll.
You can take @What_Exit’s advice and ignore the thread, or you can learn something from it.
I know what people who don’t want to come across as a troll would do.
It’s entirely up to you, and playing the victim won’t get you much sympathy.
He’s been very civil.
Eh, sometimes someone comes in and explains themselves and we clear up a miscommunication or misunderstanding. Sometimes people come in super defensive and lie about what others have said in order to make themselves into a martyr.
When a poster in this thread is defending the pittee, and the pittee attacks them, it usually ends up being the latter.
He has a chance to mend his ways, but if not, he’ll just get more and more frustrated and sink more and more into his martyr complex until he can’t maintain his veneer of civility anymore, and he’ll flame out like many before him.
As someone who hasn’t formed an impression one way or the other about @slicedalone, I think I can be impartial here. I think ascribing “scientific racism” to a poster who happens to mention IQ in a discussion of inherited characteristics is an extreme stretch and completely unjustified. First of all, IQ should not be off the table when discussing inherited characteristics because it has nothing to do with race. Furthermore, there is some evidence from molecular biology that heredity does contribute a component to intelligence; for instance, the CHRM2 and DTNBP1 genes have been linked to high-level cognitive function (see for instance this paper from the National Institutes of Health). However, these facts do not in any way support any kind of intelligence-based taxonomy by race, for which there is no evidence whatsoever. There are far more genetic variations within any particular racial group than there are between the groups, so differences in intelligence of genetic origin are primarily individual differences and not systematic ones associated with any group taxonomy.
In short, one should be able to have a meaningful discussion about inherited traits, including intelligence, because any racial interpretation is completely false and is a misrepresentation of the facts by racists.
That said, I have no idea and don’t purport to know if slicedalone had any hidden intent.
Agreed. They’re not anywhere close. Equating IQ inheritance with scientific racism is ignoring the existence of mixed race couples, for example.
In the Ron Desantis fascism thread, newly minted poster “al wyn” is trolling hard. And our esteemed moderator Miller took a bullet over it.
I don’t know if that idiot is trolling or just another badly informed rightwinger. That first post is like a rightwing bullshit ChatBot. You could win five bingo games with all the rightwing buzzwords and errors of fact in it.
“Errors of fact”?? What are you, a fascist?
Haha! Yes, just like the antifa people – they have “fascist” right in the name!
I thought he was more of the Grammar Nazi kind…
No grammar for you!
I saw a harmless post from Damuriajashi and wondered how long before they draw a modnote/warning and open up a thread about Thought Police oppression. I have to say that I expected racism rather than transphobia to be the go-to play.