True or False: "It's never a bad idea to go into debt for education!"

In My Humble Opinion
1

The quote in the title of this thread is one I frequently hear tossed about.

A caveat or two: let’s frame this just around the idea of debt for education and all that encompasses, not relative things like, “well, I mean, it’s better to go into debt for school than debt on booze, whores, and designer purses!”

My (wordy) thoughts?

[SPOILER]
I was raised to be incredibly financially conservative by my father, someone with a finance background by trade. While I understand that they are unavoidable in some circumstances, one thing that was heavily pressed upon me was the idea that students loans should be an absolute and utter last resort. It’s for that reason I chose a small, local college— one where I could even work just part time and still pay my tuition cash). And now, at 26, I have zero debt to my name and good credit.

I have friends- most of them in the education field- who are literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. . . and all for jobs where under even the best circumstances, they’ll maybe make $100,000 a year someday long down the line. Jobs where now they are chugging along at $50,000 a year with huge, insurmountable debt from school around them. I’m not talking about people who got a PhD because they are those perpetual student types who just love learning for the sake of learning— the people I’m thinking of went the University of Phoenix-type route (basically the pay-a-ton-of-money-do-not-a-lot-and-get-a-sweet-Master’s-in-Education! route).

And then I see the Occupy Wall Street blogs and the huge amount of “I am the 99%” posts involving people with just absolutely illogical situations (to me, at least). The girl holding up a sign saying she’s $250,000 in debt because she got a BA in Art History from Harvard and can’t get a job now. Why. . . what. . .who would think that’s a good idea ever?

Don’t get me wrong: I’m not at all anti education. I just think your pursuits should have a specific purpose, otherwise you’re doddling along, delaying “being a grown up” and incurring debt that could very well ruin your life. My friend who just got her Master’s in Biology? Get it, girl! A BS in bio isn’t going to do much, but now she can take that master’s and get a ton of well paying, relative secure jobs. That degree makes perfect sense to me.

Alright, per usual, I’m babbling away my thoughts here. I’d love to hear yours. [/spoiler]

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2

It’s an investment - though the point isn’t always to get a monetary return. I’d vote “false”.

3

It’s a trivial matter to concoct a counterexample to the claim, but sticking to the real world, I’m reminded of a quote I once heard someone give on a news report I was watching about the economy that has stuck with me for decades:

“It’s ridiculous! Here I am with a master’s degree in medieval French literature, and I’m waiting tables!”

4

It can be a horrible idea to get into debt for education. Some degrees are a horrible idea even if you don’t go into debt (because of opportunity cost). It’s in investment and just like any investment, saying it’s never a bad idea is reckless and hyperbolic.

It reminds me of people who think that buying a house is a good investment. Some house purchases are good investments but if you go in with the notion that “gold/education/house purchase is always a good investment”, you’re likely to find otherwise.

Because so many people think gold/education/houses are a good investment, I would expect them to be (generally) oversupplied and thus more difficult (ceteris paribus) to turn into a good investment.
To take the Harvard BA woman as an example, if she wanted a good investment, she should have gone into the trades or nursing. But the trades or nursing aren’t as status boosting and ego gratifying as a Harvard degree in art history, are they?

5

Education is an investment in yourself. But it’s still an investment. It needs to make sense in the long run.

“I want to get a PhD, write, and teach at a university in a field that needs people. Oh, and I’m genuinely the shit!” It’d make sense to go into a crapton of debt. Same with being a Dr. Or a certain type of lawyer.

“Getting an MA will help me teach.” Fuck yeah get the degree.

“I want to get a Masters because I’m bored. I’m not doing anything with my degree nor do I plan to.” Then it’d be stupid, I think.

6

It can be worth it, but it can also be a huge waste of money for no return.

7

I pretty much agree with you. I can quite see taking out a certain amount of debt to become, say, a doctor–but for PACS or other non-paying futures, it doesn’t make much sense.

To my mind this shows up a serious flaw in our educational system, which has two conflicting missions. A lot of what universities do is based on the ideal of a liberal education: expanding the mind, getting the education befitting a free citizen, etc. which is priceless. So, to this day, we have lots of students who think that way. The trouble is that that model was originally built on the assumption that the student had plenty of money and no real worries about making a living. Liberal education was, for centuries, something mainly for the elite, and anyway for quite a while there a college diploma would get you a decent job because it meant you were more educated than the majority. I’m all for expanding liberal education to every citizen, but it’s not the road to a job. That’s a separate deal.

Then you have the other mission–to give a student an education that will lead to a paying job, such as accountant or lawyer or psychologist. This is done with the expectation that the student needs to make a living, and is mainly practical. A person can get an MBA and have a reasonable expectation that at the end, she’ll be fitted for some sort of job that actually exists and comes with a salary.

We have mixed these two things up and tried to expand college until nearly everyone is supposed to go. As a result, a college diploma no longer results in a job if it isn’t a practical one, and at the same time, people think that college = job. And it’s more expensive than ever, which leads to ridiculous situations like the Harvard art history major.

–dangermom, comparative literature major, but then went for a semi-practical MLIS and is therefore employed, if precariously, and is also very big on self-education which is practically free

8

Just like everything in this world, it depends.

If you have to take a loan, presumably that means you are not independently wealthy and are seeking an education to enable you–at least in part–to get a well-paying job. Well-paying varies by individual. That means going to college is a financial investment for most people.

So it would behoove someone who is taking out loans to make it worth their while. This does not necessarily mean going into science/medical/engineering/technology. It does mean being an “intentional” student, though. It means whatever you study, you can’t be no slouch. So if art is your thing, you better bring it. No painting-by-numbers stuff for you…'cuz that will not give you the biggest bang for your buck.

It also means doing some homework. Going to Harvard for a Master’s Degree sounds good…until you realize that there are far better programs in your field at much cheaper schools. When you get out of school and start looking for jobs, hiring managers may impressed with the name-brand on your resume, but chances are your salary is going to be on par with the dude who graduated from a premium public university, carrying only a quarter of your debt.

I was fortunate that I never had to take out any loans. But I know people who have, and they’d probably say they wouldn’t be as successful as they are if they had never taken out any loans. So I’d never say “never”.

9

I voted False. It is not always bad, but it is definitely not always good.

10

Totally agree, especially the part about doing your homework. For example, you mention a masters degree at Harvard vs. a premium public university. That really depends on the degree in question and how “premium” that public university is. I borrowed to get my MBA from a top 10 school. I wouldn’t have needed to from a lower ranked school, but the combined difference in job placement and starting salaries made the top 10 school (not Harvard) well worth my while.

But it really does depend on the degree, the amount of debt, and what you want to do.

11

We need to kill this silly notion. Some degrees are consumption goods, not investment goods, and people who are considering them need to take that point of view.

12

It seems like we’re told that a college degree is ALWAYS good. Everybody with a college degree makes more money than everyone without. But then you get out and, no, you’re screwed, unless you got a degree in something that currently needs workers (which is basically the STEM fields and just about nothing else.)

So, no, going into debt for education is not always good. I have a pretty good job, in that I’m making more than both my parents (by a dollar or two), but it’s not in my field and I’ve just about given up on working in my field. At least my student loans are almost the only debt I have left.

13

Although there are always exceptions, I believe holding a degree increases your lifetime earning potential, and, thus, is a pretty good investment.
I’ve always read that your student debt load should not exceed your anticipated first year’s salary. This guideline still seems high to me, though.

14

QFT. I have a friend who is paying assloads of cash so his son can get a degree in “film” (or something like that. The kid apparently has aspirations towards being a big time movie producer.)

I’ve practically bit a hole in my bottom lip to keep from saying anything to him.

15

Sure. But a person who is seeking those degrees shouldn’t take out a loan and then be angry when they can’t pay for it.

I think it’s great when parents encourage their kids to study whatever makes their hearts flutter. But it’s unfair to teach kids that simply knowing stuff writes their meal ticket. It makes you interesting, yes. But it doesn’t entitle you to anything. I think the notion that learning for the sake of learning is always cool, regardless of financial cost and marketability, is much more dangerous than viewing education as a practical endeavor.

16

Good plan. Film is an industry worth billions of dollars that employs millions around the world He may not become a producer, but of he has any gumption, he can almost certainly find a job. A nice side benefit is that filmmakers always have an easy way to make money on the side doing pro videography- a great emergency fall back up if you end up in hard times. All of my film major friends are well employed, probably 70% in industry.

I took another path, but I don’t regret it for a second. No matter where I go, even of I am in jail, I benefit from my studies every day.

17

Why? BFA (or moreso MFA) degrees can be good investments. You don’t have to become the next Weinstein to make a living at film production. Art school degrees are useful if you’ve got energy and are willing to carve out a niche; it’s hard to get skills training and internship opportunities in creative careers and art schools help. You also learn a lot of self-promoting skills.

Going to school for a BFA can be a more practical route than a “normal” liberal arts BA if the kid actually wants to do something with it.

18

Hmmm, so you’re a con artist? A professional assets relocator is the modern term right? So even if you happen to mistakenly get thrown in the slammer, you can still always work your trade with the people in there with you.

19

It’s a horrible idea to go into debt for education if your future prospects for earning don’t increase commensurate with the investment. I think anyone who falls back on something easy with poor earning prospects “just to get a degree” would have done better to get a job in the trades.

20

Master’s and PhD’s can be very expensive and one has to gauge if the heavy investment is going to pay off.