Of course it’s false. It is a very bad idea to go into debt for a meaningless degree from some fly-by-night online school, for example, especially when the local community college offers the same degree for a tiny fraction of the price. It’s also a bad idea to go into debt for a program that you have little to no realistic chance of completing. (I see a lot of this at my university: students who have ACT scores in the low teens, or who have ongoing mental health problems that cause them to melt down halfway through the semester and flunk multiple classes, year after year. They’re not as screwed as they might be, since we’re a public university and tuition is only $5,000 a year, but for some of them this is as far out of reach as $50,000 would be to a wealthier student.)
A BA is a no-brainer. Without a BA, your earning potential is severely limited. Yes, you can make good money in trades- but not every plumber walks into six figures. Most of the people making big money are involved in highly technical specialities (designing electronically monitored plumbing systems for large office buildings, for example) or run their own business. It takes smarts, know-how, business sense and luck- which are all things that will serve you well no matter what you do.
That said, it’s worth thinking through your BA options carefully. Private liberal arts colleges can be very expensive, and I’d think hard before investing in one if a good state education is available to you. There many be some chance that the contacts you make will be useful (I know a TON of people, for example, who are all very successful and all attended the same chi-chi small liberal arts campus) but it’s not a given. I’d default to a state school for the BA when possible.
Yes, some majors are worth more than others, but then again, not everyone is cut out to be an engineer. I’d have been a terrible engineer because I hate it and I’m not good at it. Chastising me for not majoring in engineering is like chastising me for not being an ultramarathoner- it doesn’t matter how worth it that it is, it’s simply not an option.
If you are going to major in a liberal arts subject, I say choose what you are passionate about. Few people get jobs related to their major, but at least if you study something you love, you’ll benefit from the knowledge as well as the piece of paper at the end. I think you miss a lot if you play it safe and go for a generic psych or business major when you have other burning passions. You’ll all probably end up in an office messing with spreadsheets, anyway. Might as well have a deep cultivated passion to come home to.
For an MA, I say get in debt as much as it takes, but have a real cost-benefit plan.
Remember, though, that working in a field you are excited about is a real benefit. There is a good chance that I’ll only ever break even with my student loans, covering exactly the amount of “extra” I’m making for loan repayments. But I’ll be working in a field with its own rewards. That’s worth it, to me.
But for sure do the math and know your likely options. Never get a Masters just because you don’t know what else to do- have a complete and thorough understanding of where it fits in to your career plan and why it is necessary. And remember in many cases two years working in the field may be worth much more than a masters.
The only reason to get a PhD is to be an academic, and if that is your calling, it is what it is. But it’s not an easy path. In any case, don’t expect that PhD to ever pay off.
There are some fields that have strong non-academic job markets, but yeah, the PhD is what I had in mind earlier when I was talking about degrees as consumption goods.
At least in the sciences, most will not have to take out loans to get a Ph.D. A terminal Master’s degree, yes. But if you are paying tuition to get a Ph.D in the sciences, you are doing it wrong.
If I had had to pay $$ for my Ph.D, then no, it wouldn’t have financially worth it.
False. For many fields right now, (and for the foreseeable future) employers seem to care more about experience and connections than degrees. I advise anyone to consider carefully before spending money on a degree that they may not need.
Which fields actually charge money for a PhD? I thought that even in the humanities, the degree is almost always paid for by teaching assistantships. Though, in more than a few cases, the humanities PhD student has to take a large teaching load to earn enough to cover bare minimum living expenses.
(I actually do know of a guy who’s paying for his biology PhD. He earned a good chunk of money as a biotech entrepreneur, and now he’s going back to get a background in science.)
It all depends on the situation. How much debt? What kind of education? Who is planning to do it?
I did not make the best financial decisions with regard to my education. I was raised believing that it’s 100% okay to have debt to get the best education you possibly can - an investment in your future, yadda yadda. I’ve talked to financial counselors, and they treat student loans like they don’t even count as debt.
Well, I got the amazing education I wanted. It cost $80,000. (B.A. in Spanish and Masters in Social Work.) My husband is going to have over $100,00 for his Ph.D. in clinical psychology, so we’re going to be saddled with a lot of debt. I think we’ll be able to manage it with our dual incomes, but it’s definitely going to affect our financial freedom in the long-term.
I don’t regret attending the schools I did, but a part of me wishes I had done things differently. I would definitely give anyone considering higher education very, very different advice than I received. I’m not going to lie; ego definitely had to do with my choices. I wanted to go to the best schools. So I did. I wish I’d been able to put my ego aside and really think about the long term. But these are the consequences we’re going to live with.
Diosa, I kind of consider you the financial guru of the Dope, so people should heed your wisdom.
I’ve said it a number of times here before: college, taken purely as a financial investment, is often a poor choice.
And, in many cases, I feel they should. That said, usually you need that bachelor’s degree to start getting that experience and making the connections you need to succeed. A lot of fields are difficult, if not impossible, to get into without that first step. I did vote “false” in the poll, though.
Yep. The “How much debt” is probably often the most important question. Some debt for a college or higher degree, fine. Oppressive debt, probably not.
If the advice in the OP once was true, it often no longer is. It’s simply outdated advice, framed for a world that no longer exists.
One friend springs to mind immediately, though theirs isn’t a PhD, I think: BA in English from a private school ($150k in student loan debt), MA in education from a community college (another $50k in debt), and now a doctorate from a half online half legit school for education admin or something of that nature (another $60k+). It was explained to me that it’s not a PhD, but some other doctorate? I, clearly, am not smart enough, because I had no idea there were other kinds of degrees after MA that made you a doctor of whatever field. This person’s life plan is to become an administrator in schools/ school districts (they are currently a teacher).
Oh gosh, hardly! But thank you :). I’m just very fortunate, I think, to be raised by somebody with 1: professional financial insight and 2: a bit more of a conservative outlook financially. Plus, this is all familiar to me: I was taken down to Charles Schwab with $100 when I was a small child and opened an investment account to learn how all of that works. I remember being 7 or 8 and my dad getting me this big book (geared towards kids) about how to save money and understand finances. That book suggested you put away 10% of your allowance- I’ll never forget that :).
Anyway, funny enough, this thread came up because yet another friend was asking me for financial advice. This happens frequently and I’m more than happy to advise them. . . the problem is, though, that people tend to get really mad if you suggest their plan has some holes. “You’ve got a great job that has nothing to do with your BA-- a job with TONS of potential to move up in. You have debt from your BA that you haven’t even started paying. You just cleaned out your IRA (and paid the tax burdens for that early withdrawal) to pay credit card bills, so now in your late 20s, you’re starting retirement planning from square one. Perhaps a master’s degree “because I want one!” is not the best use of $60,000 right now.” Then I got my head bitten off as I was told (for the millionth time) that going into debt for education is never a bad choice.
There is a respected tech school for my job field that let me get some diplomas in two years. I went that route because it was the same education as a degree, just without general ed requirements. I’m 25 years old, with no student debt, while my friends with degrees are still paying off their student loans. Now, at this point, I could audit all those cool liberal arts classes for fun, while still paying the bills during the day and saving money. Or I could just read the textbooks from the same classes. Or or or I could do a bajillion other things to educate myself on the cheap, and I don’t even have to take classes I’m not interested in to meet my degree requirements!
I didn’t vote in this poll, but I would venture to say that in the vast majority of cases, if you were to ask True or False: X is NEVER true, most people will answer False. Absolute statements are very rarely without exception.
Somehow that doesn’t stop people from making them.
In the situation you describe, I think it’s important to be critical about the notion of going back to school. In my case, at least I had a single career goal in mind and knew that in order to move up in my field I would need further education. I knew way back in undergrad that I was going to go into social work, and I planned my courses, activities and post-graduate jobs accordingly accordingly.
I would have benefited from choosing a cheaper graduate school, though. I could have gone to the same school my husband attends and saved a lot of expenses for moving, and the cost of him commuting for 2 years. But I still would have made the decision to go.
First, the concept is really weird to me, because education should and needs to be free. Education (and university) is and should be much more than just learning for a job; and democracy needs educated citizens.
Any form of tuition, or debt, keeps away students from poor circumstances, which means not only wasted talent (what if Einstein’s parents had to pay for college, but couldn’t afford the expensive rates?), but also uneducated citizens. Which means they will fall for scams and bullshit and make bad decisions.
I based my answer on thisrecent Cracked articleabout the US system however.
I would assume this was an EdD. I don’t know much about it but my understanding is that EdD students often do pay their own tuition (unlike PhD’s) and that it is specifically for people for people who want to be education administrators.
In the sciences, though, you should consider the opportunity cost of a PhD. If you could be making $80k/year in a private sector job, but you spend 3-9 years making $30k in stipends and research assistantships on the way to your PhD, getting that degree certainly has a nonzero cost, even if you got paid the whole time.