True or False: "It's never a bad idea to go into debt for education!"

[DrDeth]

I assume you mean real debt, like the current crop of grads complain about? Then, no debt isn’t always worth it. Now, I walked out with a couple thou in Student loans, as I worked my way thru college, and sure, that wasn’t bad at all.

[DiosaBellissima]

@DrDeth

I assume you mean real debt, like the current crop of grads complain about? Then, no debt isn’t always worth it. Now, I walked out with a couple thou in Student loans, as I worked my way thru college, and sure, that wasn’t bad at all.

Absolutely. There is definitely a huge difference between being frugal, getting a few, small loans and. . . well, Harvard Art degree girl in my OP.

[lazybratsche]

@iamthewalrus_3

In the sciences, though, you should consider the opportunity cost of a PhD. If you could be making $80k/year in a private sector job, but you spend 3-9 years making $30k in stipends and research assistantships on the way to your PhD, getting that degree certainly has a nonzero cost, even if you got paid the whole time.

I agree with you in principle, but you’re severely overestimating private sector income. Especially if you consider the actual employment prospects for an undergraduate contemplating whether to go for the PhD. FWIW, I took about a 20% pay cut starting out, which might be more like 30-40% when you consider the salary I might have had in five years.

[Spice_Weasel]

Re: the expense of Ph.D.s. My husband gets free tuition and a small stipend, but it’s not enough to cover living expenses for 5 years. I’d be really impressed with anyone who came out of that program 100% debt free.

[Pai325]

I think most people can get an undergraduate degree without going into much debt if you don’t mind junior college for the first two years and then a state school for the next two, alongwith working during the school year and on vacations. That’s not the college experience a lot of people dream of, so they choose something else.

I can’t think of many for-profit schools (and many are unaccredited ) that are worth going into debt.

So I had to say False.

[Yeticus_Rex]

False.

After my parents pre-paid my first year of college along with room and board (all of $4000 at that time), I produced a stellar 1.00 GPA. From that point on, I decided to take full responsibility for my actions; I told my parents not to pay for the next year because I didn’t want to answer to anyone for my actions anymore, so I took a different path through two different colleges, and paid the rest of the way with money I had earned, instead of money I would have owed…it took longer, but I felt more self confident about myself and my decisions and actually did a better job of allocating my resources which was divided up between school, family (wife and my first child) and a home. The lack of debt helped me get that home even before I graduated. And even after that, my wife and I worked together to build a business using both of our educational backgrounds and experiences only 5 years into our marriage…we even went back to a local college for some business management, accounting and business law to keep ourselves from being totally clueless. I did borrow $5000 (for 1 year, at 7%) from my dad to go towards start-up costs, but only really needed it for 6 months and paid him back ASAP.

My point is the more you rely on yourself rather than others, the more control you have from this day forward…one way is to keep your expenditures that incur debt down to a minimum, preferably 0. Therefore, a school that will get you from point A to B cheaper over a 10 year period may be more advantageous than a prestigious school that will get you from A to B over a 15 or even 20 year period once you pay that debt.

[DrDeth]

@Pai325

I think most people can get an undergraduate degree without going into much debt if you don’t mind junior college for the first two years and then a state school for the next two, alongwith working during the school year and on vacations. That’s not the college experience a lot of people dream of, so they choose something else.

.

But it’s exactly what I did. Went on to get a grad degree and everything. In today’s dollars, I think I had under $10K in loans when I came out. Worked nite shift as security.

[iamthewalrus_3]

@lazybratsche

I agree with you in principle, but you’re severely overestimating private sector income. Especially if you consider the actual employment prospects for an undergraduate contemplating whether to go for the PhD. FWIW, I took about a 20% pay cut starting out, which might be more like 30-40% when you consider the salary I might have had in five years.

Depends on the field. Those aren’t unreasonable numbers for CS.

Obviously, anyone considering grad school should consider whatever they think is a reasonable estimate for their field.

[DiosaBellissima]

@Pai325

I think most people can get an undergraduate degree without going into much debt if you don’t mind junior college for the first two years and then a state school for the next two, alongwith working during the school year and on vacations. That’s not the college experience a lot of people dream of, so they choose something else.

I didn’t even do junior college-- I just went to a CSU (in California, there are junior colleges, CSUs, and then UCs. . . so a CSU is a local 4 year college is better than a junior college, but not, ya know, UCLA) and my entire BA was less than $15,000

[dangermom]

@DiosaBellissima

I didn’t even do junior college-- I just went to a CSU (in California, there are junior colleges, CSUs, and then UCs. . . so a CSU is a local 4 year college is better than a junior college, but not, ya know, UCLA) and my entire BA was less than $15,000

I got my MLIS at a CSU and it was a steal. But I think the prices have gone up since then; from what I hear, it’s no longer the great deal it used to be.

[Voyager]

@iamthewalrus_3

Depends on the field. Those aren’t unreasonable numbers for CS.

Obviously, anyone considering grad school should consider whatever they think is a reasonable estimate for their field.

Maybe for someone with a very high GPA from a top school who can get a job with Google. Not a good average. And I know what new PhDs are getting, and it is a lot.

There are PhDs and PhDs also. My daughter is getting some kind of joint one in Psychology and Business because business schools pay twice what psych departments pay. I didn’t raise no art history major.

[constanze]

@Yeticus_Rex

My point is the more you rely on yourself rather than others, the more control you have from this day forward…one way is to keep your expenditures that incur debt down to a minimum, preferably 0. Therefore, a school that will get you from point A to B cheaper over a 10 year period may be more advantageous than a prestigious school that will get you from A to B over a 15 or even 20 year period once you pay that debt.

Those times are gone by now. It’s no longer possible today just because it was 10 or 20 years ago.

This photo (from facebook) suggests that a plucky someone, through hard work and austere living, should be able to graduate from college debt-free; this photo further suggests that one’s ability to do so is entirely within one’s own control, and that somehow not being able to do that constitutes a “bad decision”; the photo also suggests that this hypothetical student believes she/he is not part of the 99%, which, by contrast means she/he thinks she/he is part of the 1% (the 1% referring to the top income earners in the U.S.). I’m not going to dispute that particular 1% point, since it’s already self-disputed within the photo as the subject self-describes her/himself as a near minimum wage earner, automatically placing her/him in the bottom 99% of wage earners in the U.S. In other words, that part of the photo is especially ridiculous, too ridiculous to refute.

The rest, however, I’m happy to refute – with facts and stuff.

[DiosaBellissima]

@constanze

Those times are gone by now. It’s no longer possible today just because it was 10 or 20 years ago.

Uh, I was in college less than 4 years ago. It sure is possible. Maybe not if I had chosen to go to a UC instead of a CSU, but I chose financial independence over the name of a school*.
*Ok, a decent part of it was that when I entered college, I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do with my life, so I felt it was EXTRA foolish to go into debt when I didn’t have a plan. I quickly got my shit together though and even then, I in no way regret my choice to go to a smaller school to get my degree. I’m 26 with no debt, I have a retirement/ investment account (and have for years), and I’m saving to build up my credit/portfolio/ and maybe buy a house in the next 5 years (but a pay a good chunk of it down)-- not many of my friends can say that. In fact, a good percentage of my friends are figuring out how they’ll even be able to make their loan payments, let alone get them paid off before retirement.