This is a pretty serious allegation from the sitting president:
(Including the Fox News article for balance)
He hasn’t provided any evidence yet. It’s only in tweet form so far.
Things I’d like to debate:
Should the press take this seriously? My view – yes, it’s a serious allegation and it’s from the current president.
Where did Trump’s information come from? If it’s from a justice department or FBI investigation, should he have released this information in this form? My view – no, if it’s a serious investigation, and it has come to these conclusions, a more formal information release is warranted.
His source may have been from a Fox News interview with Paul Ryan where Ryan says he doesn’t think the Obama administration was doing surveillance of the Trump campaign. If this was the source, should the press still take it seriously? My view – yes, it’s still a serious allegation.
This is such a WTF moment for me, but I’m trying not to just dismiss this out of hand. I’d like this thread to seriously discuss this if possible, and not just get into Trump bashing.
Also, I’d love to hear from Trump supporters on this – is this the right way to make such a serious allegation? Do you think an investigation will happen? Do you think there will be wrong-doing on Obama’s part found?
I wish you well with that but to me it seems as though this is yet another instance of Trump changing the subject when he doesn’t like what is being said about him. In this case, the Trump team-Russia connections are starting to look substantial (or the fake news is working overtime to make it seem that way) and Trump would rather talk about how great he is, how despite three million false votes and now some wiretapping to boot he still won because he’s the greatest.
Let’s assume for a moment that you’re right and this is just something he just made up. Can Congress, the FBI, or the Justice Department simply ignore an accusation like this? This isn’t something silly like who is a good actress or whether a former Miss Universe was overweight.
I guess the accusation of millions of illegal votes was pretty serious, too, but somehow this seems on a whole different level. If the press, or the FBI, or whoever, does investigate and finds that the accusation is completely made up, should there be repercussions for the president? An inquiry into his mental state? Anything?
I just don’t see how a sitting president can accuse a former administration of this level of wrong-doing and have our legal system, elected officials, and press just laugh it off.
I’ve read several articles about this and I can’t find the cite now, but one of them suggested that IF Trump was given classified information about wire tapping and he spoke about it publicly like this, then the information may be subject to FOIA now. Not being a lawyer or FOIA expert, I don’t know if that’s true. But I imagine if it is lots of FOIA requests are being drafted right now.
This is a very serious allegation, so the press should probably treat it seriously. But Trump obviously has a habit of throwing around baseless allegations, and this does seem to me to just be a diversionary tactic. I would be disappointed if the press diverted resources from real issues to go on another Trump inspired snipe hunt.
The allegation is bull, and Trump either made it up or misheard something on some TV show he was watching. In this case, the FBI, press, someone should investigate anyway, and when they find that the allegation is false, Trump should face some kind of consequences.
The allegation is true. In that case, obviously further investigation is warranted, and consequences would follow to whoever authorized the wire tapping, following whatever laws were potentially violated.
Yes, this may just be Trump’s way of distracting the press after a bad week, but that itself is a very serious issue and in itself a reason for real consequences for the president.
To me, if this allegation was made and knowingly false, it’s nearly on a par with some of the Russian stories floating around.
ETA: It’s a Saturday and I have stuff to do, so I may not come back to this thread for a while, but I’m not abandoning it. I welcome further commentary and apologize in advance for my absence.
Barring new information, my immediate reaction is that the FBI may have been using wiretaps to carry out a criminal investigation. In which case, the President really ought to be blaming himself or his advisors, depending on who was the target.
More than likely. Trump obviously listens to and parrots so many conspiracy sites. He’s friends with Alex Jones for crying out loud. He’s so full of conspiracy theories, it’s scary.
Everyone was praising him for his “State of the Union” speech and acting presidential, but there were quite a few who knew it wouldn’t last long
Assuming this accusation has merit and is true, which I have suspicions given Trump’s record, can someone explain to me why this is serious?
It’s been suspected for months, I believe since last summer, that Trump and his associates have been colluding or at a minimum meeting with Russian intelligence and the Russian government. Wouldn’t “they” (presumably FBI) wiretap anyone under these circumstances? If I was having similar interactions and business dealings, I would have the expectation of being “tapped” and monitored.
I read on the ultra-reliable Twitter, that the President himself cannot order a wiretap of citizens. Any veracity to this claim?
As much as I’d love to see Trump impeached, I don’t think this is going to do it. As far as I can tell, he genuinely believes all this stuff at the moment when he says it. It’s neither a high crime nor a misdemeanor to be a not-overly-bright seventy-year-old white guy who gets his news from right-wing media and repeats every wild accusation and conspiracy theory he finds there; if it were, they’d have to arrest a LOT of people.
Electing a not-overly-bright seventy-year-old white guy who gets his news from right-wing media and repeats every wild accusation and conspiracy theory he finds there to be President of the United States is appalling, but that one’s on the voters, not on Trump.
Not exactly. You asked a question about the veracity of the claim. I agreed the claim was correct and offered an example of a President who tried to get around this and suffered serious consequences.
This is idiotic, so far as I’m concerned. Trump is well known to have a bug up his ass about Obama. First there was the birther garbage. Now, his entire “presidency” to date seems to be to simply kick over every single achievement Obama accomplished. Trump’s hatred of Obama is pathological and obvious, to me.
In Trump World, all President Obama had to do to be “responsible” for wiretapping Trump was be in office while it was going on. Never mind about FISA court warrants. Never mind that presidents can’t order wiretaps, with or without evidence. Never mind that the FBI had/has good evidence to present to FISA in order to obtain permission to wiretap Trump campaign associates to determine if there was/is collusion with the Russians. You know; actual laws, procedures and evidence. Nope, never mind all that.
Trump and/or associates were wiretapped. Obama was President. Ergo, Obama ordered wiretaps. Don’t you get it?
Just under 47 more months of waiting for this fucker to grow up Let’s say for a moment that he had a legitimate complaint. Is this really the most mature response he can muster? His colossal ego is so fragile that he has to come out like gangbusters at the slightest hint of an insult. Jesus, Donald. Why don’t you worry about why the FBI would feel the need to seek out a warrant?
Honestly, expect more crazy and outrageous lies from this guy… Lets hope this is all going to be over before his discussing, alt-right based orders and cabinet picks cause any massive permanent damage to our country.
I’m still amazed there are dopers that actually voted for this guy… wow, your minds are truly warped!