That isn’t true, that is just your opinion and perception. I do agree that many people hold that same opinion, which is why I said I’m surprised aides haven’t banished wristwatches from the wrists of all Presidents post-Bush I.
It is my opinion and my perception. I’ll own that.
~Max
Sometimes I’ll have to check twice because the first time is just a force of habit and I don’t actually read the time. That happens much more often than I care to admit.
I mean yeah, I understand some people are just habitually looking at their watch and don’t mean anything by it. But I put that in the same category of behavior as habitually rolling your eyes in the middle of a conversation. You may not mean anything, it’s just a habit or you are nervous - I get that - it’s still rude, IMO.
~Max
So…
I mean, I’m desperately trying not to compare him to the last guy who literally - and on multiple occasions - actively insulted Gold Star families as well as active servicemen and women, veterans, the military leadership and of course his shot at McCain’s POW status, but this is ridiculous. Your opinion is of course your own but mine is that one has to be actively searching for offense to find it in a few watch checks over the course of a long ceremony.
It goes back to what I said–the reason I don’t put much weight in “ephemeral” issues like this is because I think they almost exclusively matter to people whose minds are already made up. Like there were minor kerfluffles during Obama’s presidency about how he didn’t properly salute one of the marines who stands guard when Marine One lands. My wager is that virtually, and maybe actually, zero voters in the United States who had any intention of ever considering a vote for Barack Obama cared about that incident. Meanwhile many voters who would never vote for Obama no matter what, no how, intentionally made much to do about it specifically because they felt it would “hurt” Obama. But because it’s ephemera, it doesn’t really hurt, it just resonates with other people who are already in lock step agreement with them. The only real value it may serve is it helps to continue firming up the battle lines between the “tribes” and helps the racist/reactionary tribe continue to build justification for why its tribe has to defend itself at all costs from the “other.” But it’s not costing anyone votes. It’s ephemera.
Technically speaking, Presidents are not required to salute and, before Reagan, did not make it a habit.
US Army Regulations state:
“The President of the United States, as the commander in chief, will be saluted by Army personnel in uniform.
“Civilian personnel, to include civilian guards, are not required to render the hand salute to military personnel or other civilian personnel.
“Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate, or both are in civilian attire.”
Most presidents have never even served in the military and, of the ones who did, all had left the military by the time they were elected. It’s not as if saluting is trained into them as it is into military personnel.
Beyond that, they are superior to any member of the armed forces and are always in civilian clothes. Reagan, as a former military man, felt he should return salutes and now every President has to do it or be seen as unpatriotic, much as every President seemingly has to wear a bloody flag pin or people start having conniptions.
I’m aware, but this is a thread about politics, right? And perceptions of Presidential behavior? Obama definitely got flak for either forgetting to salute in one instance or not saluting “correctly” in others. This was politically motivated flak, but it did happen. It shouldn’t be too much of a surprise that quoting Army regulations isn’t an effective counter to right wing “concern trolls.” There’s also no law or regulation that requires the President to meet with the families of recently deceased soldiers, that requires him to be present when their bodies land in the United States and are unloaded from transport planes, or that require him to not look at his watch during those events if he does attend them. That obviously doesn’t affect what Fox News is going to make an issue.
Yeah, things are only ever added to the required list - nothing ever comes off.
I guess the question is whether there is anything that Obama could have done that would not have invited such flak. Not saluted Troops: how dare he ignore the Troops. Saluted troops: how dare he pretend to be a member of the military. At some point you just have to accept that haters are gonna hate.
I don’t generally wear a watch but I couldn’t tell ya the number of times a friend has checked his, I ask, “So, what time is it?” and he has to look again to answer.
Yes, it resonates with the people in lock-step; it also sets an overall atmosphere. How many people didn’t vote for Hillary because she wasn’t “likeable”? As soon as the 2020 primaries started, I was hearing whispers of Elizabeth Warren not being “likeable”, and I was thinking “WTF! Everything I’ve seen / heard about her before this was professional and personable.” Yeah, one little incident is not going to change any votes, but if you can take all of these little incidents and pile them together and harp on them and keep the negative flow going and pretty soon all of that ephemera becomes a bit pile of shit, and it does have an overall effect. We had 4 years of proof of that.
Right but with figures the stature of Obama / Biden or even a Trump, they don’t move the needle because it is so well established. All of the little nonsensical Republican cultural attacks on Obama did not translate into beating Obama at the polls, and it is unlikely for a politician as well established as Biden they are much moving the needle either. People didn’t vote for Joe Biden because they thought he was a paragon of Presidential etiquette–in fact he has a reputation suggesting he would be bad at that very thing, or even that he was an inspiring speaker or any of those things. Likewise no one who voted for Obama or who voted against Obama, was meaningfully influenced by things like tan suits and saluting controversies.
A lesser known person who is only at the Presidential candidate stage of their career, and who hasn’t held previous high national office, it is quite likely ephemera can add up, like I think the stupid stuff about being a Cherokee Indian did genuine damage to Elizabeth Warren, in part because outside of Massachusetts and liberal circles, she wasn’t broadly well known to the nation and that’s one of the first impressions around campaign season.
. It can be a little weird sometimes what will get you.I might remember the time, but if I was checking because I had something to do at 3:00, the best I might be able to tell you is “not 3:00”. No need to move the actual time into even short term memory.
I didn’t realize until just now that saluting with coffee referred to an actual event. Obama’s gaffe with the coffee mug wasn’t as bad as the Biden watch thing because IMO respecting the families of soldiers who died on a mission you ordered is more important than properly saluting soldiers standing outside your airplane as you step onto the tarmac.
But again, Trump did much worse things and this does not come anywhere near impeachable or resign-worthy.
~Max
Speaking of gaffes, some might think it inappropriate to commemorate the 20th anniversary of the deaths of thousands of Americans in a terrorist attacking by providing color commentary for a pay-per-view boxing match at a Florida casino.
Donald is going to talk about people besides himself? Without calling them names?
Cross posting from SRIOTD:
I guess Trump is providing commentary on a pay per view boxing match today. Trump junior took to social media looking for questions people could pose to the con man.
“Is he going to advise the dude who gets knocked out to call the fight rigged?” cracked one Twitter user, referencing the former president’s penchant for pushing lies about the 2020 election.
To be fair, that part is still be be determined.