Trump has been lying about how much money he makes.

Actually, it could be an important lie when you consider that the reason that a lot of people believe the American government needs to be run like a business. Part of the attraction is that Trump knows how to make money for himself; therefore, he can make money for America.

Trump’s business is cash flow. He knows how to generate cash and knows how to turn investors into hostages if they’re lucky, and expendables if they’re not. Trump lies about how much he has because it’s very much in his interests to do so. He has made a career out of lying about how much money he makes so that he can find enough dumb saps to give him more of their money to piss away. Perhaps that’s why he thought he could win the presidency: he’s used to conning people and he finds ways to get over.

On backing up claims, I’ve never understood the logic by which either a) the person quoting a source has to provide an internret link rather than someone who doubts it looking it up themselves, (maybe it’s courteous if you just read it) and moreover b) the idea that print books or articles which might not be linkable somehow don’t exist. Maybe a generational thing or something.

You can easily look up various articles trying to estimate Trump’s NW in well regarded publications. The Economist’s story, which reviewed the Forbes answer and gave their own lower number, both in the big picture a fairly small fraction of Trump’s claim, was definitely published fairly recently whether or not there’s an easy to link to it. :slight_smile:

To reiterate on the point GIGObuster mentioned ‘Trump reported more than $3bil in licensing fees.’ This seems to refer to Trump’s valuation of his ‘brand’ at about that figure in his campaign financial disclosure. The issue is that that’s not what most people would view as ‘net worth’, ie $3bil in the bank already from such deals, nor is it apparently the present value of gteed future payments. It’s the present value of future deals Trump assumes will happen. Again, that’s like estimating your salary for the rest of your working life then discounting it at some interest rate (from where?) to today and adding that in with your home equity and retirement accounts and such as part of your ‘net worth’. I think you could expect to be questioned on that. Just on that methodology, before considering whether your career is on the upswing or downswing.

No one other than Trump and close advisers probably know his real net worth–and even they may only have a “rough idea.”

Trump could definitely provide more proof than he has, but we do know Trump has a few billion in assets in terms of real estate that we know he owns. What we don’t know is how much debt he has, and we have no idea how much he “really makes” each year or how much he “makes in reported taxable income.”

Trump’s personal finances are extremely convoluted, he owns something like 500 corporate entities. I don’t know Bill Gate’s finances but I’d be surprised if he owned 100 corporate entities. AFAIK Gates when he left Microsoft and slowly sold off his Microsoft stock he put the vast majority of it in a single company through which all of his investments are ran, so it’s possible Gates, someone worth far more than Trump, might “only” own on paper 5-10 corporate entities.

The high complexity of Trump’s finances would make it very hard for anyone without full access to all of is corporate and personal financial records to know. Trump also commingles personal and business assets and income pretty freely. He was known to do so (to the limits, and possibly beyond) of what was proper in his role as CEO of a publicly traded company, and private companies which are much less regulated he probably does it far more. So we know a Trump owned entity owns x $500m building in Manhattan. What portion of that entity does Trump own personally? Does that entity have debts out against the value of the building?

Keep in mind with capital gains like real estate, Trump reports no income and pays no income until “realizing” those gains. So some NYC properties he’s owned for decades undoubtedly are worth far more, because NYC’s real estate market has been red hot for ages. But until he sold them there’d be no reported income and no tax liability change. The property tax would go up during assessments, though.

I think it’s proven he owns around $3bn in real estate assets, so he potentially is worth $3-4bn like Forbes says. But without knowing how much debt Donald is swimming in we don’t really have a clear picture. He could actually have a very low net worth (sub $100m) but still have $4-5bn in assets and access to a lot of “cash flow” through various means that would enable him to live the lifestyle of someone with a net worth of 3-4bn. In fact debt in general allows you to live beyond what you could on your income alone, at least for a time.

Trump does some things that are very un-frugal, like maintaining a private 737, helicopter, several residences. His Trump Tower property tax bill alone for his penthouse residence is probably millions a year.

But we also know Trump plays pretty dirty with all types of taxes. He routinely reports to taxing authorities that properties that are demonstrably worth tens of millions are worth only 3% of that (like his Westchester Golf Course, reported to tax authorities as worth under $2m but reported to the public at large as worth $50m to boost his prestige.) In that case, given the value of land alone in that location, the $2m valuation is nothing but pure fiction designed to lower his tax bill.

That being said, he (or you) can tell the government a property is worth anything you want, but they don’t have to agree with you. However Trump and his father basically made their careers out of a sort of government capitalism, in which they used political and government sweetheart deals, connections, and special treatment to be able to invest in property in a way that is virtually risk free (and unavailable to regular investors.) There have been many years in which the Trumps were the largest donors to New York City politics, and they’ve used those connections pretty extensively in their business dealings. So it’s entirely possible that Trump is actually being taxed on some of his ludicrously low valuation claims, and thus paying even well below his share on property tax.

And of course with real estate, assessments are just a good guess. No one knows how much a property is worth until it’s listed and sold. That’s why Donald’s real net worth probably isn’t actually knowable given the large % real property makes up of his worth.

What hasn’t Trump lied about? If he told me the sky was blue, I’d ask for proof.

When someone says “Believe me” as often as he does, it means you shouldn’t.

Well not entirely true. If Trump wants $20 mill to buy a new golf course, a reasonable appraisal of one of his properties will give him the collateral to borrow that. So it’s worth something even without a buyer.

The magazines’ estimates are necessarily incorrect, because they can only ever be estimates. But I’d take their word as a ballpark centuries before I’d trust Trump’s.

Thanks. BTW, John, I have an ad blocker too and if you wait five seconds it drops the box and lets you into the article. Hardly a bad cite.

You misread that. He makes somewhere around $35 million for royalties and fees. He claims that the value of his name is $3 billion. That is only a 1% ROI, so it seems slightly overpriced. And this is not a stable asset - if Trump gets creamed in November, I wonder how he will do, and I wonder if he reduced this when he got fired from the Apprentice and kicked out of Macys. Maybe an accountant can tell us how this is normally valued, but it sure isn’t a licensing fee.

Oh yes, I was looking at the graph, Trump puts the licensing deals and branding developments together for the 3 billion part. IMHO an unsupported number and Trump is not getting a lot from his licensing and branding now when looking at what is going on with his name.

Trump’s name is worth jack around here, after another development debacle. Luckily (?) nobody seemed interested in living in a Trump-named property. The land remained undeveloped with a big Trump Tower billboard on it. They finally removed the billboard more than a year ago and all the road signs are now repainted. I now call it Blank Tower.

This is interesting:

So, only little people pay taxes… Trump is not only like a male Palin but he is also a male Leona Hemsley.

I like the part where he has over $600,000.00 in deductions, and NO RECEIPTS. Also, he forged an account’s name on his form.

relevant to this discussion and hilarious:

Trump gave Charlie Sheen fake Platinum Cufflinks as a Wedding gift:

Lincoln was right 150+ years ago about fooling the people.

Trump isn’t fooling all of the people any of the time.

I feel dirty posting a link to Gawker but this article give it’s sources and has a timeline of how Trump has consistently lied about his net worth since 1988: