the senate does have specific language and as impeachments don’t happen too often (trump exception) the parliamentarian would provide instruction.
add in age and masks making hearing difficult, things can get confusing.
the counting votes thing earlier on the 6th was really awkward in the wording that the vp and senator had to say about each states electoral vote.
Apparently Hawley was not even at his seat - he was in the gallery, not paying any attention to the proceedings.
He should not be allowed to vote. He is abrogating his duty and his job,and should simply be tossed. But of course he has (R ) after his name, so that’s perfectly acceptable to be a US Senator and act like a 15 year old entitled child.
I wonder if the prosecutors have tried to get Trump to speak. Would he be willing to throw Trump under the bus?
Yes. They invited him to appear; he declined.
Even if they get caught in the crossfire.
That’s a very good point. If the Capitol were under attack, even if he had absolutely no connection to it, if he sat on his hands and just watched it happen, that should be impeachable all on its own.
I’m not sure why the Managers aren’t using this quote, (unless I missed it)
“I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad,” he said.
This may come as new information to you, but in proceedings of any kind, whether legal or parliamentarian, certain specific words must be spoken.
When the person responsible for speaking those words is unfamiliar with what exactly must be said, they rely on persons who are the body’s institutional memory. You will often see this in courtrooms when a clerk assists a new judge with specific language that must be spoken on the record.
It doesn’t mean the judge or parliamentarian leader is senile or even ignorant. It only means they are unfamiliar with the specifics of the particular proceeding but understands that the proceeding must be conducted in a certain way.
How many impeachment trials do you suppose Patrick Leahy has run?
I think the fact that there is open discussion of splitting – or splintering – the party is big and welcome news. McConnell’s key to power has always been that he could shepherd his caucus and hold them together to support even the most egregious conduct. Agreed, it’s a smallish number of leaders – but they’re not being secret about it.
Many a hemorrhage starts as a smallish wound. I doubt we’ve seen the end of persons fleeing the Republican party. I hope not, anyway.
Excellent point!
So even if the Fire Chief did not instruct his people to set the fire, when he saw the building in flames, it was his duty to instruct his people to try to put the fire out.
I’ll be honest, I’m having a hard time watching this trial. It’s horrifying and heartbreaking, and just painful to watch.
I can’t bear to watch it. I’m counting on Dopers with strong <ahem> constitutions to take the heat and report here. Thanks to those doing the heavy lifting.
Thanks, but credit should be given to @casdave for first mentioning it.
Yup. They could have gone full “Longtime Democrat Donald Trump” on his ass, mocked all his egotistical bluster, denounced the Ukraine phone call as the ploy of a “Hollywood reality-show celebrity thinking he can negotiate his publicity pitches with foreign heads of state as though they were network executives”, sneered at his sleazy tricks and his lack of patriotism, etc. etc.
Pence would have become President, to the accompaniment of frenzied self-applause by millions of conservative Christians seeing this as the fulfillment of God’s “instrumental” use of Trump. And he probably would have handled the pandemic less incompetently, getting a “war president” boost in popularity, while the return to more or less normal protocols in many aspects of the Executive Branch and the lack of stupid Presidential tweeting would have defused the anger of a lot of potential Democratic voters. We’d be starting President Pence’s first full term right now, and he’d be getting all the credit for pandemic recovery and keeping the economy afloat.
I’m not sure that Trump would have been banned from Twitter in that scenario, though.
God, what a fucking nightmare.
As P.J. O’Rourke said of Hillary in 2016, “she’s wrong, but at least she’s wrong within normal parameters.” Pence would have been an objectionable President but would still have been infinitely better than Trump.
Just because it’s not the end-times destruction of America doesn’t mean it’s not a nightmare.
Absolutely true.
And President Pence would be guaranteed to do nothing at all about global warming, which would eventually lead to the end-times destruction of quite a few nations, America included.
Some of those tens of thousands don’t really count, though. I changed my registration to Republican before the primary and didn’t bother to change it back to Independent before the general because it wouldn’t affect which ballet I got and I’m lazy.
That lapse was corrected shortly after dinner on the 6th because it was the first I remembered about it.
I doubt I’m alone.
Thing is, Pence believes in the end-times destruction, and that it’s a good idea. And that the USA ought to be a “Christian nation”.
He’s probably actually more dangerous than Trump, precisely because he is sane. We’ve dodged more than one bullet here. (Don’t get complacent; there are plenty more in the armory.)
He only needs to control it if those sane Republicans are replaced by Democrats. If instead they’re replaced by crazy Republicans then McConnell doesn’t really need to do anything. I think we’re about at the limits of which same Republicans are even a 50/50 shot to be replaced by a Democrat rather than a crazy Republican. Pat Toomey, Ron Johnson (already crazy), Susan Collins, and Richard Burr in the Senate. Maybe a small handful of House seats in purple suburban districts. That’s about it. Any other sane Republican is more likely to be replaced by a crazy Republican than by a Democrat.