Trump planning a bunch of pardons?

[Little_Nemo]

@Tim_R.Mortiss

Right; that’ll never happen. This gang is so predictable that if Trump walked on water, somebody (probably ThelmaLou) would start a thread called “Trump Can’t Swim!”

And if Trump went swimming, somebody (probably you) would start a thread called “Trump Can Walk On Water!”

[jasg]

@Quartz

How many did Obama consider? How many has Trump actually pardoned to date? How do the rates compare?

As far as I can tell, Obama never publicly ‘considered’ any at all. He seems to have relied on the DOJ Office of the Pardon Attorney. It has been reported that Trump is not. Instead he is making his own calls.

Statistics are here. Looks like applications for pardon/clemency are roughly equal for the first two years of each administration. Obama granted none, Trump 6.

Applications

Obama : 3492
Trump : 2982 (partial second year)

Granted

Obama : 0
Trump : 6

The process has been a bit different.

@Obama pardon process

It’s worth putting this in contrast with what President Obama did. When he decided to use his clemency powers to decrease the number of people imprisoned for nonviolent drug crimes, he did not just call up his buddies to figure out whom he should grant relief or pick out a single sympathetic, high-profile case.

Instead, he took on a systematic approach that avoided any signs of favoritism or nepotism. He asked federal inmates to submit applications for clemency, receiving, as of January 19, 2017, more than 36,000 requests, which was more than the previous eight administrations combined. Those applications were systematically reviewed by the Office of the Pardon Attorney. After this review, Obama granted pardons or commutations to more than 1,900 people — the most of any president in decades.

Versus

@Trump pardon process

Trump, on the other hand, seems to be doing whatever rewards his friends and allies, with no real systematic process whatsoever. As Ashley Parker, Robert Costa, and Josh Dawsey at the Washington Post reported, Trump has even taken to “asking friends who else he should pardon” — perpetuating a system in which only those closest to Trump seem to get a voice.

[Quartz]

@Delicious

The article I linked above says Obama received nearly 3400 requests for pardons.

Yes, but how many did he actually consider?

[Quartz]

@jasg

Statistics are here. Looks like applications for pardon/clemency are roughly equal for the first two years of each administration. Obama granted none, Trump 6.

Thanks. I had read-ahead mode OFF.

So he’s exercised his Presidential powers on a whole 6 occasions, fewer occasions thus far than Bush or Reagan or Carter or many other past Presidents of both parties. That doesn’t sound like anything about which the Dope should be too concerned.

And do you have a less biased source for Trump’s pardoning process than the Washington Post?

[asahi]

Trump is blatantly using his pardon powers to send the message to those in his circle and also to law enforcement that he can, and will, pardon anyone who’s loyal to him. I suspect that he’s also trying to add an element of celebrity to it as well, pardoning Jack Johnson, responding to Kim Kardashian’s request for clemency on behalf of someone else. Pardon power can be another populist tool if he exercises it strategically.

[jasg]

@Quartz

Thanks. I had read-ahead mode OFF.

So he’s exercised his Presidential powers on a whole 6 occasions, fewer occasions thus far than Bush or Reagan or Carter or many other past Presidents of both parties. That doesn’t sound like anything about which the Dope should be too concerned.

And do you have a less biased source for Trump’s pardoning process than the Washington Post?

I agree that six is not a large number, but is more (in the first 16 months) of the last three presidents).

The biggest difference seems to be the process and the bypassing of the modern pardon process. I did not cite the Washington Post but since you might prefer a less liberal source, I will offer the opinion of the Washington Times.

@Washington Times

President Trump raised eyebrows Thursday with an unorthodox use of his pardon power, letting filmmaker Dinesh D’Souza off the hook for campaign finance violations and suggesting reprieves for two more celebrity convicts: former Illinois Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich and lifestyle maven Martha Stewart.
Mr. Trump has used his power to grant clemency — one of the most absolute authorities a president possesses — in an unusual manner: by scanning TV and newspaper headlines and selecting cases where he sees injustice and then delivering his own brand of presidential mercy.

[drad_dog]

@asahi

Trump is blatantly using his pardon powers to send the message to those in his circle and also to law enforcement that he can, and will, pardon anyone who’s loyal to him. I suspect that he’s also trying to add an element of celebrity to it as well, pardoning Jack Johnson, responding to Kim Kardashian’s request for clemency on behalf of someone else. Pardon power can be another populist tool if he exercises it strategically.

I do notice that he is pardoning a (80 years?) dead black man, and not any live ones. I think his base is being messaged by these things. Donald is an antidemocratic troll in the oval office.

[Saint_Cad]

I can’t believe it but Trump just pardoned a former business partner for a federal crime and his own brother (for possession and trafficking no less!)

My mistake, that was someone else.

[John_Mace]

@asahi

Trump is blatantly using his pardon powers to send the message to those in his circle and also to law enforcement that he can, and will, pardon anyone who’s loyal to him. I suspect that he’s also trying to add an element of celebrity to it as well, pardoning Jack Johnson, responding to Kim Kardashian’s request for clemency on behalf of someone else. Pardon power can be another populist tool if he exercises it strategically.

@jasg

I agree that six is not a large number, but is more (in the first 16 months) of the last three presidents).

In the scheme of total # of pardons by recent presidents, 0 and 6 are not significantly different. And I’m not really concerned about quantity so much as quality, similarly to what asahi posted.

@drad_dog

I do notice that he is pardoning a (80 years?) dead black man, and not any live ones. I think his base is being messaged by these things. Donald is an antidemocratic troll in the oval office.

Not a pardon, a commutation, but the recent one was a live, black woman.

[drad_dog]

@John_Mace

In the scheme of total # of pardons by recent presidents, 0 and 6 are not significantly different. And I’m not really concerned about quantity so much as quality, similarly to what asahi posted.
Not a pardon, a commutation, but the recent one was a live, black woman.

It’s different. Not pardoning a live black man, and yet making a show of doing it for someone long dead, mythologized, and dramatized, seems like a memo to his base.

[Wesley_Clark]

If Trump accepts money in exchange for pardons, is that a crime?

There are likely quite a few billionaires and multi-millionaires who either have been convicted or have a family member who has been convicted of a federal crime who would appreciate a pardon.

[John_Mace]

@Wesley_Clark

If Trump accepts money in exchange for pardons, is that a crime?

Of course. Any president would be committing a crime if they did so. Typically, when a government official accepts a bride, the action he is being bribed for would be legal without the bribe.

But then we get back to the question of whether a president could pardon himself.

[drad_dog]

@John_Mace

Of course. Any president would be committing a crime if they did so. Typically, when a government official accepts a bride, the action he is being bribed for would be legal without the bribe.

But then we get back to the question of whether a president could pardon himself.

Pardoning himself is corrupt, definitionally. What question needs to be asked about it?

[Czarcasm]

@drad_dog

Pardoning himself is corrupt, definitionally. What question needs to be asked about it?

How about the question that was just asked about it?

[drad_dog]

@Czarcasm

How about the question that was just asked about it?

I scanned the thread. Not much on it. What question is left if it’s corrupt by definition? …“Can he do it?”

Is this about the meaning of the word “can”?

[Folacin]

@Wesley_Clark

If Trump accepts money in exchange for pardons, is that a crime?

I’m going to opine not? Per the USSC, there are no limitations on the President’s pardon power. If he can pardon anyone for any (or no) reason, it doesn’t seem like “because he gave me $1,000,000” is any more invalid than “because she has nice tits”.

[JRDelirious]

The accepting money part makes it a bribe – and bribery is one of the two crimes that are explicitly defined as impeachable offenses.

[John_Mace]

@Folacin

I’m going to opine not? Per the USSC, there are no limitations on the President’s pardon power. If he can pardon anyone for any (or no) reason, it doesn’t seem like “because he gave me $1,000,000” is any more invalid than “because she has nice tits”.

The pardon would stand, I’m guessing. But the president would have committed a crime and an impeachable offense.

[Czarcasm]

@John_Mace

The pardon would stand, I’m guessing. But the president would have committed a crime and an impeachable offense.

And if he got to keep his freedom and the cash, he wouldn’t give a flying fuck.

[Folacin]

@John_Mace

The pardon would stand, I’m guessing. But the president would have committed a crime and an impeachable offense.

@Czarcasm

And if he got to keep his freedom and the cash, he wouldn’t give a flying fuck.

So, even if he pardoned himself (let’s assume he can, it seems undetermined but likely), could he still be forced to disgorge (I believe that is the term of art) the ill-gotten gains? I would assume yes?