I said almost all , not all are communist / dictatorships. Western Europe, and other countries similar to the US have banned the DP, many of them decades ago. But then again we are a country where people are actually proud of being stupid. Like Trump voters for example.
If Russia finds one of their own a spy for the west they don’t kill them right away , they torture them first to get info then they kill them.
Do they? I thought they used them like Get Out of Jail Free cards when one of their own spies in the West get caught.
For that matter, why not just hook up a car engine’s exhaust to the chamber? If we’re going to have a Federal death penalty - and it looks like we will for the foreseeable future - carbon monoxide will get the job done cheaply, painlessly and without the need for a prescription.
Car exhaust nowadays contains rather little CO. It’s not nearly the effective suicide technique it was years ago.
As well it contains lots of other chemicals that are pretty noxious. If we are maintaining the polite fiction that suffering is to be minimized, choosing car exhaust as the asphyxiant is heading the wrong direction at speed.
See here for more:
Eddie Slovik died while the rifles were being reloaded for a second volley.
ISTR that they know how it feels because people who have lost consciousness from similar situations have been revived, and they’ve described how it felt.
Which was basically that they didn’t perceive anything untoward until the lights went out.
Death by firing squad is not foolproof. If the targeted (literally–a target is pinned to the chest) person moves, death could potentially take longer, though that hasn’t been the case in recent times. Moreover, it’s a messy business. A large wooden board is placed behind the targeted person to contain some of the spatter. I remember that when the last person by firing squad was executed in Utah in the 1990s, Newsweek reported his chair was placed in a large metal tub to contain the gore. It may be “humane” in that it usually causes only momentary excruciating pain, but it’s pretty horrific. OTOH, I guess one could argue that the more disgusting the process, the more likely it is that people will turn against the death penalty. Lethal injection allowed a lot of people to be comfortable with the death penalty.
60% of the world pop live in a DP nation. Yes, all the Western EU nations have banned the DP since that is a EU requirement.
India is quite democratic, so is Singapore, etc. So it’s not “almost all”.
There are good reasons for getting rid of the DP, but the fact that the EU has done so thus the uSA has to is not one of them.
Pakistan shuts down the press who criticize the government and being gay is illegal. What a great democracy! Not to mention letting Bin Laden hide out there.
Russia does trade spies some but mostly they just kill any KGB agent who they find spying for a foreign country,
@Bijou_Drains You seem mistaken, since Democracy doesn’t guarantee things like gay rights or press freedom. That’s what a constitution rooted in Enlightenment ideas is for. Democracy, when functional at least, only assures you that the majority is okay with the decisions being made, not that those decisions are particularly good.
It’s perfectly democratic for five wolves to vote to eat the lone dissenting rabbit. So, it seems like Pakistan is an example of a working democracy. If the people wanted gay rights or a free press, they’d vote for that. The US doesn’t have a functioning democracy (by design), so things that +70% of the population want, like reasonable gun control and fixes to the healthcare system are not in the cards. What’s missing in Pakistan is respect for human rights and a constitution to defend them - not democracy, at least so far as your argument goes - though it may well have a poor Democracy for other reasons way beyond the scope of this thread.
(Side note, this is why the West fails so miserably at regime change. Just because you institute a Democracy doesn’t mean they’ll suddenly embrace the Enlightenment!)
Long story short, the death penalty isn’t a reflection of the presence or absence of a functioning democracy in and of itself. Only if the majority of voters don’t want it to exist, but it does anyway, can you argue that Democracy has somehow failed. What is being shown vis a vis the death penalty is that the US has gone astray of Europe in the development of human rights.
Interesting - thanks. Perhaps nitrogen would be the way to go, then - or burning-charcoal fumes, as that Wiki article mentions.
https://thecrimereport.org/2020/11/16/americans-more-polarized-on-gun-control-gallup/
57%, and the definition of “reasonable” changes. What do you consider “reasonable”?
and honestly Americans dont know what they want in health care:
A new poll finds that about only one in 10 registered voters want the equivalent of Medicare for all if it means abolishing private health insurance plans.
…In a Hill-HarrisX survey released Thursday, 13 percent of respondents said they would prefer a health care system that covers all citizens and doesn’t allow for private plans, an approach that is sometimes referred to as “single-payer.”
The most popular option, at 32 percent, consisted of a universal, government-operated system that also would allow people to buy private, supplemental insurance.
Twenty-six percent of respondents said they wanted a government insurance plan offered to all citizens, but one that doesn’t compel people with private plans to use it, a system sometimes called a “public option.”
A small minority of 15 percent of voters said they wanted the government to completely remove itself from paying for health care, while another 14 percent said they want to keep the existing health care system intact.
To offset that 70% of Americans want “Medicare for all” since they think that means, well, Medicare for everyone, not the Sanders plan. But as you see above, only 10% of Americans want a plan that abolishes private health insurance- a cornerstone of Sanders plan. Sure it’s right there if you actually read Sanders plan, but Sanders cleverly named his plan “Medicare for all” even tho it has nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare.
Which is why Sanders is a goddamn weasel faced liar.
As for the DP? About 50% Americans support it, 54% to be exact.
So yeah, America has a functioning Democracy- the voters get what they vote for. The voters voted the GOP in. They got what they wanted.
@DrDeth The 70% was from memory, so I’ll freely admit I was slightly off. 60% was more accurate, but still a 3/5 super-majority. Also, “fixes to the healthcare system” doesn’t necessarily mean medicare for all. Even then, the polls have to be individually examined for how they phrase their questions or you get results all over the place (however a majority side with government programs [PewResearch, circa Sept 2020].
As for Gun control, I hadn’t checked more recent polls, but as of a year ago that number was lower than when I first heard that statistic (But not much lower [PewResearch circa 2019]) and not enough to make a difference. ~60% is still a super-majority and even your figures show a simple majority, which is supposed to be reflected in the law if we’re a Democracy. Our Republic does not function as a healthy Democracy but then it was never intended to, which was my point. If you’re still not convinced, here: Thomas Jefferson declared: “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”.
Now what does any more detail in that regard have to do with Firing Squads and the Death Penalty? Nothing? Then let’s not thread derail by quibbling. Democracy and Human Rights are separate issues, and a lack of human rights vis a vis an embrace of the death penalty does not reflect a lack of Democracy. That’s the only thread relevant point I’m willing to hash out.
we had a guy in NC who made an effort to get his execution on TV live or on tape in order to make people against the DP. His point was why was it being done behind close doors with only a few witnesses. The state shot down that idea and no court agreed with him. I believe TV stations agreed to show the tape if it was made.
I think this is very unlikely. For instance, the bolt gun that’s used to kill cattle and horses would work fine to kill people, and it’s much more likely to work immediately (at least enough to render the victim unconscious – the backup for cattle is to slit the throat and bleed them out, which would work for humans, too.)
But I agree with the rest of your post. I oppose the death penalty because it kills people, not because of the precise method of killing.
I suspect what’s driving this is that it’s getting hard to obtain drugs for executions, because most EU-based manufacturers won’t sell drugs to entities that perform executions with them. But the current drug cocktail that’s used for executions has a high risk of torturing the convicted on the way out, so it’s not as if I feel any reason to keep it.
Obviously this is time well spent for trump. No other pressing issues (coughcoronaviruscough) that need to be dealt with or anything. Couldn’t possibly work to just put a moratorium on federal executions and work on promoting a bill for corona relief. Nope. /sarcasm
Oops, I ran into an ad, and thought I’d reach the end of the thread…
I’ve actually read it all, now.
I think it’s because it looks too much like Nazi Germany, personally.
Yeah, I personally know two people who have been asphyxiated to the point of losing consciousness, and then revived. One was an accident involving CO and a space heater near a bath tub, and the other was an intentional part of pilot training, involving N2 in a special chamber, with the “victim” monitored on video.
Neither suffered. The guy who passed out from CO said he felt really good and all he was thinking about was the sensation of splashing the warm bath water over his body. He also said he had a horrible headache the next day, but that’s not a problem if the goal is execution. The woman in the N2 chamber watched the video of herself, and was embarrassed by how silly and irrationally she acted, but she was unaware of losing cognitive function, and said she felt completely fine and was having a good time until they pulled her from the chamber. She posted part of the video on Facebook.
Divers who go deep can get nitrogen narcosis which can kill them. Some deep divers use helium to avoid that problem.
Personally if I were to be executed I’d want the guillotine, if for no other reason than to try and find out for myself if there’s any conscious thought or awareness after separation.
True, but if a given squad member wants to believe he wasn’t the one to deliver the fatal shot this makes it easier. Also nobody outside the squad is going to know for certain.
Russia’s in a grey area. They still have the death penalty, at least for men, on the books, but don’t actually apply it in practice (the last execution was 1996). What they are are big on is extrajudicial killings and torture.
I’m betting you’ll keep that to yourself, right?