Oh, like England and France at the beginning of WW2.
To be fair, NATO wasn’t then in force. The world was a very different place geopolitically ~1940.
No, I mean like the Reich in Austria.
Trump will not invade Canada. At best, we’ll get some more empty threats.
Unless the US spends quite a lot of time and energy subverting the Canadian democratic process (like Russia has done in Georgia, Moldova, and pre-Maidan Ukraine) then the legitimate government of Canada is unlikely to capitulate in that way. And the current clown-show isn’t capable of that sort of thing on any sort of near-term timescale.
In the event of an invasion with anything approximately like our current government, that government will not not be Vichy Canada, but will go into exile probably in the UK, and support a resistance. The Trump clowns would put up some sort of puppet, not sure who, don’t think even Danielle Smith would agree, that essentially no Canadians would see as legitimate. The Canadian armed services would have disbanded/reformed into guerilla cells at this point. Any insurgency would be targeting primarily American occupiers, because the “Canadian” puppet government’s authority and police forces would be paper thin.
Anyways, the far more plausible invasion/takeover scenario is that in a post-Trump authoritarian US, whoever emerges as leader actually does do the groundwork a la Russia in Georgia/Moldova etc and doesn’t initiate an occupation until there is a faux-legitimate pro-US faction in government in Canada. That would be some decades down the road, however. A naked unprovoked invasion by force in the shorter term is an overreach at the moment, and the sort of thing that might well threaten to topple the Trump regime before it gets going. Miller et al will understand this even if Trump doesn’t, so nothing beyond stupid 51st state rhetoric will happen for the time being.
The last couple of days show Trump as a President without bounds. Having forced all General grade officers, world wide, to attend a 2 hour meeting in Virginia, He and Hegseth saw themselves as communicating meaningful directives to subordinates and are no doubt satisfied with the result.
Why would they be concerned about the desires of Canadian Government Executives? This is an exercise in power, not logic.
And yet, Ezra Klein would still be arguing for “Big Tent politics” and civil discourse about the issue.
Just the fact that this is a discussion based upon something that the sitting US President actually said (repeating himself for clarity so we are assured he didn’t actually mean Colombia or Comoros in his semi-coherent ramblings) is and that he wasn’t immediately impeached or removed under a 25th Amendment action is evidence that nothing makes any sense in American politics and that there are no adults in charge in Congress or the White House. Imagine going back in time to, say, 2001 and explaining to Americans that in a quarter of a century that the Republican Party would elect failed real estate developer and reality TV host Donald Trump to the Presidency (twice! after a failed insurrection!) who would then threaten to invade Canada with no provocation whatsoever? You would have zero credibility as an agent from the future, clearly just rehashing the plot of a little watched Michael Moore movie.
That being said, I think ordering the US military to plan, organize, and execute an invasion of Canada would create such strife and discord internally, both within the leadership of the armed forces and the American public in general, that it would likely result in mass insubordination and civil disobedience, essentially fomenting a fracturing of federal authority. It would not be effective because no competent military leadership would remain, military members would resign or abandon their roles en masse, and there would be no capacity or support for any kind of sustained operations. It is easier to engage in an unwarranted invasion of a county halfway around the world populated by people speaking an indecipherable language that to attack our northern neighbor and (until very recently) staunch strategic and economic ally.
Stranger
This.
Things are certainly chaotic in a certain way right now … but not chaotic in an absolute way, where there aren’t real limits on what can be credibly predicted.
+1
On the contrary … that meeting demonstrated some of the bounds within which Trump and Hegseth have to flail.
I think it did, but do they understand it also? Or what is their current delusion? If FoxNews airs that it was a great meeting, trump will repeat it in his mind until it is true.
I agree. I think the military is largely NOT interested in invading our friends and neighbors, especially when there’s not any kind of threat there.
Plus, I feel like, as with all things Trumpian, there’s a 90% BS content involved. I really believe he likes saying outrageous, nonsensical stuff because he likes seeing his opponents squirm and freak out about what it could mean, if he actually meant it. And I’m also sure that his Project 2025 puppetmasters are feeding him most of this stuff just to keep the torrent of insane bullshit flowing, so that the news media can’t dig in on any one item for very long, because there’s another one hard on its heels. By this time next week, something else will have eclipsed the meeting of the generals and the government shutdown. And something else the week after that, and so on.
The part that I don’t get is this deep-seated desire to control stuff to the degree that they want to. I mean, I can see not agreeing with “woke” stuff, but the lengths to which they’re going to expunge it seem insane. Calling flag officers in from around the globe just to lecture them on who’s the new sheriff in town, and that he’s not going to tolerate fat soldiers or beards is wild. Like just entirely out of the pale and I’m sure the generals feel much the same way.
I shared that position up until yesterday. During Trumps rift on aircraft carriers I finally accepted that Trumps’ power is total and that he is entirely detached from reality. He was presenting silly, childish nonsense to a professional audience that must accept it. The gap is monumental but the act is real. Trump can and will do anything he desires.
Now that he can do these things I believe he is doing them, all of them.
Would you be better off under US bombardment or house to house attack?
No, Trump is not going to invade Canada. And if he gave the order, it would be the most-defied in US military history.
The world runs on bullshit. This is only an argument from power, not truth, not logic, just power.
@Velocity - Constitutionally the military is to carry out the policies of the executive. If the President has cause to invade Canada, it is the task of the military to do so. Consider the military defying Congress to do Reagans bidding in El Salvador.
Sure, but that’s like saying that if Trump orders the US military to launch 200 nuclear warheads at Ireland or Italy, that the U.S. military would just do so without hesitation. The military is not a robot.
I think you are missing a major issue here; location and logistics. Most US troop concentrations are located in the Southern US (Ft. Bragg, Ft.Hood, etc.) and moving a number of heavy divisions a thousand miles north to the border will get you noticed and talked about. And if you bring tens of thousands of soldiers you have to support them with food, ammo and supplies and do that indefinitely–but you must stockpile the initial attack material before invading. Same with Naval units located in Norfolk or San Diego. It would not be a matter of Trump saying ‘Invade Canada’ and the Army marching in next Tuesday. Look at Desert Shield/Desert Storm (albeit this was farther away) for how long it took to get sufficient forces and support in-place.
Plus it’s a 4,000 mile border (albeit only 1,800 miles are land, the rest water) and no military has the ability to invade that much territory at the same time, or to prevent incursions into it’s own territory. Obviously any attack would be concentrated on the major Eastern urban areas, but the ability to quickly conquer the whole country is problematic–those dratted Logstics again.
Upshot is, I can’t see this happening in the near future without some drastic changes (yes, even more drastic that heretofore). Venezuela is out for much the same reasons of logistics and Greenland is the only possibility if Trump wants to go full Mango Mussolini.
Not that practical concerns are much on his mind these days, I think…
IMHO as always. YMMV.
Press on.
Perhaps.
It is close to being tested. How would they defy the President? Do you believe there is no US military sympathy for invading Canada.